"You may not believe in me, you may doubt me, but you may not doubt the Communist Party."

Interviewer: First, I’d like to know which decade you were born in.

The early 1960s.

Interviewer: Then, from 1966 to 1976, where did you live in China?

In Anhui Province—along the two sides of the Huai River.

Interviewer: What are the memories [of the Cultural Revolution] you’d most like to share with us, the deepest memories?

Actually, I think that at the time the Cultural Revolution started in 1966, I’d already begun to have memories.

Our family—you’ve started recording, right? Just like the nation, [our family] experienced a complicated series of events, on an epic scale.

That is, in all, our family’s fate was closely linked to that of the nation.

You could say they were completely bound together.

First, my parents had previously been in the army.

My father had been a relatively high-ranking officer.

Later, the army introduced my mother [to my father], and the two of them got married.

My mom was eight or nine years younger than my father. She was also in the army.

They were very happy after they got married.

I have three older brothers, each with one year’s difference in age between them.

[Their names are all similar], and they’re each just one year apart.

After the Cultural Revolution came along, my father was attacked.

It’s because when serving as Communist party high official, he’d once been held captive by the Kuomintang [Nationalists].

[He’d been] taken to Shangrao concentration camp.

Shangrao, in Jiangxi [province], had a concentration camp, a jail for the Kuomintang’s political prisoners.

[My father] had been locked up there, and was rescued later on.

This period of [his] history was actually totally innocent, but after the Cultural Revolution came along—

[During] the Cultural Revolution, a lot of black-and-white [issues] were turned upside-down.

Right and wrong were totally mixed-up.

In China’s history, the Cultural Revolution was really—how can I put it?

It was a disaster for our family. It was also a disaster for all of China.

[During] those 10 years, [China] greatly regressed.

In those 10 years, many families fell apart.

Some families were exterminated; husbands and wives became enemies; children turned their backs on one another.

Anyway, all different kinds of situations emerged.

Our family, for instance: at the time, my father was labeled a traitor, a historical counter-revolutionary.

In the beginning, [he was] seized and struggled against, [made to kneel in] “jet plane style.”

He was struggled against every day. Later, my mom thought this was not right.

She believed absolutely that this was not right, so she went to Beijing, preparing to complain to higher authorities.

My mom’s comrade-in-arms was Liu Shaoqi’s garrison section chief, Section Chief Ma.

At the time, this Section Chief Ma just said, “Don’t come here to complain now...

...There's no use—right now, the central authorities are in total disarray...

...Hurry back, and first settle [your husband] down, first protect [his] life—that’s most important.”

My mom just rode on a coal train that night, for 18 hours; at that time, all trains were slow; [it took] 18 hours on the coal train to get back home.

[She] told my uncle to send my father away that very night.

[She said] no matter who came to take him away, don’t hand him over.

I must mention that our family had a dog named Saihu.

Previously, [my father’s] coworkers, these “uncles,” had all been very respectful of my dad.

But then, when they suddenly came to our house to take my father away, the dog leapt onto them and tried to bite them.

At the time, one of my older brothers thought, how can this dog be so ignorant of good manners? This is “Uncle” Li, “Uncle” Zhang, and “Uncle” Wang!

When my dad came back home, his body had green and purple [bruises] all over it. He just pet that dog.

Only then did my brother understand, that dog knew those people were bad people.

So, at the time, under these sorts of circumstances, my mom thought it was no good—she had to send my dad away.

Especially after getting Section Chief Ma’s [opinion]. She got back home and sent my father away.

[She sent my dad] back to his hometown, to the former soldiers’ base, the place where my father had engaged in guerilla warfare.

The people there had pledged their lives to help one another.

Thankfully, at the time, technology was not as advanced as it is today, and transportation was not as developed.

Those people who went looking for [my father] could only go by bicycle.

Every time they went, the locals would let the air out of the [bicycles’] tires.

They said, “What issue does [that guy] have? He is the best Communist party [official] we know...

...[He] protected us and fought off [the Japanese].” They had only good memories [of him].

Actually, in the beginning, the government was quite good to our family. My father’s rank [was high]; our family had three nannies.

Among them, two were wet nurses, who had breastfed my older brothers.

[Another] one cooked; there were three [in all]. We all called them “second moms.”

After my father left, a freeze on deposit bank accounts began; wages stopped being issued. The economic situation at the time was dire.

My mom was resolute—[she] was such an amazing person.

During a family meeting, she said to the nannies, “Now, each of you grab a hemp bag, and take anything from the house you can take. Take it all away.”

The nannies said, “We can’t leave you all!”

[My mom] said, “I can’t pay you.”

[The nannies] said, “It doesn’t matter whether you pay us or not—we can’t leave you; you are our family.”

My mom said, "No, you have to leave." Not only did they have to leave, but anything from the house they could take, they should take.

"Perhaps in the future our family will need to depend on you," [my mom said]. "[We] might run away to wherever you are going."

After she sent them away, my mom had a meeting with us kids. At the time, I was really small, maybe four or five years old.

[My mom] said, “There are three rules: you will not steal, you will not rob, and you will not go licking plates in restaurants.”

Because with nothing to eat, [people would] go to restaurants to beg for food, and lick the plates. None of this was allowed.

She was really an amazing woman, an amazing mother.

She just took us kids out to a rural village where people had finished digging carrot, taro, and

[红薯].

She took us to dig again; there were still [vegetables] in the ground that we dug up and took home to eat.

Before, we had bought firewood and coal to burn.

Now, we were picking firewood ourselves, collecting coal slag—coals that people had burned, which could be collected [and burned again].

I remember very clearly, my old brothers would catch fish. Each person had a net for collecting them.

My maternal grandmother’s home was on the banks of the Hui River; [they] had eaten fish since [they] were young.

One day, my second eldest brother and I went to catch fish. It was interesting.

We took a pie. In the end, we fished until midday, but [only caught] really small fish.

My eldest brother would sometimes catch a big fish that could not only be eaten, but also be sold.

[But that day], we didn’t catch any fish. We couldn’t bear to eat that pie.

After midday, we suddenly caught a white fish called a “pouting silver carp” [because its] mouth sticks out.

We were so happy we were dancing around, overjoyed.

Then, we divided up the pie and ate it. I feel this was a unique memory.

Another memory is that at the time, the rebel faction was making trouble for a period of time; no one knew what would happen from one minute to the next.

There was violent struggle in the streets, bloody fighting, [people] parading through the streets waving bloody clothing—everything.

I still remember carrying a basin [to buy salt].

At the time you needed a [ration] ticket to buy salt; you needed a [ration] ticket for everything.

We had to be careful just leaving the house.

The rebel faction said to my mom, “You must divorce XXX. He is a traitor.”

At that time, my brothers had all been forced out of school; they weren’t allowed to go to school.

[The rebel faction said], “If you get divorced, your children can go to school...

...If not, they can’t go to school, and you will not be able to use the money you have in the bank.”

On this point, I feel my mom was so incredible.

I believe that no matter the circumstances, people must not lose their resolve, their integrity, and their righteousness.

[My mother] said, “I firmly believe comrade XXX is a good person. You know what? He most certainly would not betray the Party [or] the People. I will not divorce him.”

[The rebel faction] said, “If you won’t divorce, you’ll be sent to the ‘mass dictatorship headquarters.’”

That was like a detention center.

[My mother] said, “No matter where you send me, [I won’t get a divorce].”

At the time, the rebel faction of my mom’s work unit was also thinking of ways to torment her.

[They] held a struggle meeting and told her, “You must divorce him! If you do not do so--”

At that time, we lived in a basement. As soon as it started raining, water would come into the room, so we couldn’t live there.

So, we moved upstairs to a [room] that was like a propaganda office.

There was a cabinet in there that had Chairman Mao portraits and all kinds of propaganda pictures in it. But the glass door [of the room] was broken.

When it rained, my mom would move that cabinet over to block the rain.

As a result, [her work unit’s rebel faction] seized upon this mistake, saying, “How can you use this to block the rain—what kind of character issue is this?!...

...If the Chairman’s portrait were to fall on the ground, and people stepped on it, this is opposition to Chairman Mao!”

Back then, groundless [accusations] were quite common.

One of my second eldest brother’s classmates, a little kid, an elementary school student we called Black Hair was once walking on the street carrying a bamboo pole.

The Chairman’s portraits and statues were all along the street. [This boy] wasn’t careful, and his pole jabbed Chairman Mao’s eye.

As a result, he [was labeled] an [active] counter-revolutionary.

Turned into a little counter-revolutionary, and sent to the “mass dictatorship headquarters.”

His younger brother took food to him for a long time. At that time, no one could speak of reason.

I remember, when I was in fourth grade, our class had a kid named XXX.

Kids sometimes have rebellious minds. [People] kept telling him to yell, “Long live Chairman Mao! Long live Chairman Mao!”

To be contrary, he wrote, “Down with Chairman Mao” in the restroom.

So, the Public Safety Bureau checked [to see who’d done it] and found out it was [him].

Later, a small rebel group was organized to criticize him.

I still remember my line at the time: “XXX, you who have never seen the circumstances of revolution,...

...whose mind has been captivated by the lies of Liu Shaoqi and other swindlers, you have maliciously attacked our great leader Chairman Mao.”

That was a completely crazy era. People were all crazy.

Our family’s [life] became more and more difficult. The rebel faction came every day to look for my dad.

[When] they couldn’t find him, they beat up my brothers. That dog—that is, Saihu—the same [name] as my dog today—would jump up and bite them.

Later on, they had Saihu killed. I clearly remember, on that day my maternal grandmother and I saw it out the window.

Saihu was such a good dog. [During] the Cultural Revolution, my mom was sent to sell tickets at the movie theater.

You know, she sold tickets at the movie theater; when the movie ended, it was quite late at night before she could leave, 10 o’clock.

It was dark, and she had to walk a long route to get home. In the middle [of her route] was a bridge.

Saihu would always wait under the bridge. When my mom came along, he’d run up, and accompany her on the second half of the route.

But during the Cultural Revolution, the rebel faction strangled Saihu.

My brothers have written a couple of books about this dog, Saihu, an incredibly good dog.

My mother passed away in 2006. Later [after the Cultural Revolution] she was a judge. She was a person with a strong sense of justice.

Later she retired, and passed away.

After the funeral, my siblings and I—eight of us—sat and talked with my maternal uncle, who was also a high official in the army who after retirement served as Chief of the Foreign Trade Bureau.

[I] said I thought my mom was an incredible person, a great mother.

So many people, so many families fell apart during the Cultural Revolution, [yet] she was loyal to my father.

[Every] two years, our family was [made to move from one place to another].

She [said] we must be together; a family must not be separated. That was the first thing.

The second thing was that we were not only in good physical health, [but also had a good future].

In the latter stage of the Cultural Revolution, my dad was safe, and could come out [of hiding].

All of my older brothers passed the university entrance exams to study medicine and law, but they were not [allowed to attend university].

[This is because] it was said [our father] was a historical counter-revolutionary, a traitor.

[They] also weren’t allowed to serve in the military.

Later, after my dad was rehabilitated, my brothers retook the university entrance exam.

Though it was quite late, they all graduated from university.

All eight of us siblings are university graduates; what’s more, we all have very good work positions.

As my little brother said, “We are all like little stars; we all have our own piece of sky, and shine our own light.”

All of this is because we had an absolutely amazing mother.

I remember, at the time when we could not live in the Cultural and Education Bureau residence compound,...

...we first moved to an old woman’s [home] in the suburbs, a small room that could only fit one bed.

[We] stayed two or three nights and moved again; it wasn’t safe.

At the time we [already had] six kids in the family—whose family could support that many?

Later on, my mom separated us, [sending] one child each to relatives in the east, the west, one each to friends and relatives here and there.

At the time, I [lived] in a rural village with an older sister. Actually, she was [a daughter] of my father’s first wife.

My father’s marriage to his first wife was arranged by their families, and his first wife died later.

That sister and her husband had their own children by that time, as far as I remember. I stayed in their home for a period of time.

I remember one evening, my mom came to see me. We were making dumplings to eat that night.

Now, when think of that evening, I just think of an oil lamp. There were no electric lights, just an oil lamp, this small.

My sister’s husband sat across from me; I don’t know what joke he was telling, but he laughed until his nose was running and his eyes teared up.

[I] felt it was so warm and cozy, in the dark with this tiny oil lamp, so cozy, so happy.

That night, my mom slept together with me. The next morning, when I got up, my mom was already gone.

She had gone to see another of her kids. She had to move around very early in the morning or late at the night, for fear others would see her.

[If] someone else saw her, [that person] might follow her tracks and find everyone, find the other kids, find my dad.

The important thing was protecting my dad.

I remember, when we sent my father to where my older brother was, it was a pitch-black night.

[We walked with] two of us in front, two in back, and two in the middle, to protect my dad.

That was a respect and love for our parents that came from the heart. I feel a regret that today’s kids seem to lack this characteristic.

At the time, the streets were filled with Wanted posters, orders to arrest my dad. We just went and tore them all down.

Interviewer: Was it night time when you went to tear them down?

Yes, of course it was early in the morning, or at night, when people wouldn’t see us.

A lot of the time my father didn't reveal [his emotions], but my mom’s respect for him, in that kind of era--

Up until the latter part [of the Cultural Revolution], [although] he was safe, the [label] of traitor hadn’t yet been removed, nor had the [label] of “historical counter-revolutionary.”

Though [he] was safe, he still always had this [label]. But my mom’s reverence for him [never wavered] at the time.

For example, today scrambled egg is an incredibly simple dish, but at the time there was no way to let every person eat scrambled egg.

So, in our family, my father always ate first—fried meat floss, scrambled egg—my father would eat first. That was his position in the family.

After he finished, the kids would eat.

But on the other hand, my mom was really pretty.

She was pretty, and very capable. For her to respect my father so much was not unreasonable.

My father had attended private school….[Am I saying] too much?

Interviewer: No, not at all. I just want to record their photographs.

In his childhood, my father attended private school; he was quite well-educated.

In the winter, our family would sit around him on the bed while he told us [stories from]

,

, and

.

He'd talk about a lot of books from ancient Chinese history.

So today, my siblings all write very well, one better than the next.

My eldest brother is a lawyer who has his own law firm.

My second-eldest brother is chief editor of a newspaper in Huaibei; [he] publishes things all over the world.

My third-eldest brother has also published quite a few books, [and] served as head of the Propaganda Department...

...[and] as bureau chief of the State Administration of Press, Publication, Radio, Film and Television.

My youngest brother has served as head of a new high-tech industrial development zone.

I studied English for my bachelor's degree, and economics for my Master's.

[Our] writing skills have a relationship to [our] father's influence in [our] childhood.

Another thing: I think my father was an amazing person.

[Sometime] between 1974 and 1976, [when] my father had not yet been rehabilitated, he was demoted to serve as head of an orchard.

At the time, the Educated Youth [who had been working at] the orchard had all fled back to Shanghai.

Because no one was left, [My father] went to Shanghai to find them and bring them back, one by one.

[Starting to] "grasp revolution, promote production," [my father] reestablished the orchard, and it really flourished.

However, at the time [my father] still had the [label] of traitor, of historical counter-revolutionary.

I was in junior high at the time. As a child, my personality was pretty wild.

Since my parents were busy appealing to higher authorities all day, they didn't supervise us; [we] were used to freedom.

I remember one day, I was playing with a bunch of male friends, we were good friends, [and] one kid said, "Your father is a traitor!"

Maybe he just thought this was fun, but in an instant, my ego couldn't take it.

I just hit that boy once and went home, feeling unhappy.

Feeling upset, I went to make trouble for my older sister. It was unreasonable.

As a result, my father said, "How could you be this way toward your sister?"

He lifted his hand, as if he were going to hit me, but actually it was just to scare me.

At the time, I felt deeply wronged. I said, "Are you a good guy or a bad guy after all?!"

That's what I said to my dad. I'd seen him raise his hand, his face twitching a bit, and his heart must have hurt so much.

He didn't say a word then; his hand just froze [in the air]. It was like he'd been defeated.

That evening, we went for a walk in the orchard. [My father] said, "Look, you all, it's dark outside, but the stars are still shining."

He said, "You may not believe in me, you may doubt me, but you may not doubt the Communist Party."

Can you imagine? [He] had suffered so many injustices, so much torment; his wages has been stopped.

At the time, the family was really torn apart, with him over there, us over here, over there—a family separated into so many different places.

Later on, we'd been able to reunite, but then he was demoted and we were sent [to the orchard].

He still had the [negative label]; his children still didn't understand him.

However, he could still make this kind of statement, which [showed] an old Communist Party member's firm belief in the Communist Party.

That is, [he meant that] the true Communist Party was good,...

...[but] individual people, including the corrupt [Party members] of today, may be Communist Party [members] in name,...

...but they do not represent the genuine Communist Party. Like in a church; I used to think a clergyman stood for a church, for God.

Actually, a clergyman doesn't represent the church, and doesn't represent God; he only represents himself.

Like some bureau chiefs, whatever chiefs, they're also Communist Party [members], but their behavior smears the Communist Party—yet this doesn't mean all Communist Party [members] are bad.

Saying this is easy, [but] truly understanding it...I feel I've had a profound experience and understanding of this.

Because back in that era, a Communist Party member, [my father], experienced so much torment,...

...[such as] fleeing from persecution for so many years, [then] finally being able to come back, yet not being rehabilitated yet.

His own parents were murdered by the Japanese; I never met my paternal grandparents.

[My father] experienced war all around him; [he] fought the Japanese, fought the Kuomintang [Nationalists],...

...never worrying about his own gains and losses.

Later on, after he was rehabilitated in 1979, he [was asked to] serve as head of the Provincial Party Committee organization department,...

...[but] he said, "I don't need to. I'm already old."

[He] was already over 60, probably.

He said, "Let a young person do it." You see, [he was] a pure Communist Party member.

[My father] stayed at [my mother’s third eldest brother’s house] for a while.

During the Cultural Revolution, this maternal uncle and aunt would've died to protect my dad.

The rebel faction went to their town and said, "You must hand him over! He's a traitor...

...[If you don't hand him over] it'll negatively affect your family."

[My maternal aunt] grabbed a knife and said, "I'll fight to the death with anyone who dares come to my home!"

Interviewer: Your maternal aunt?

Right, my maternal aunt.

Back then, I heard my maternal aunt say that one day my dad went out carrying a knife—actually, he wanted to commit suicide.

He couldn’t get over it, couldn't stand it, and didn't want to involve [my aunt and uncle] in it.

In the end, my aunt discovered [what he was doing]. [My father] said, "I don't want to involve you in this."

Because back then, there really was no justice in the world; you never knew if one day...

From the nation's second-in-command, Liu Shaoqi, [to leaders like] Deng Xiaoping [and] Peng Dehuai,...

...a series of important generals, down to regular people, teachers—[everyone lived in] a dark world, without justice.

It's like [the translator/writer/critic] Fu Lei. I really love [his book]

.

When I came to the U.S., I brought a few rare books; among them was Fu Lei's Family Letters.

I don't know how many times I've read it.

[Fu Lei], a person this talented, this patriotic, who also firmly believed in the country and the Communist Party—

--he, too, couldn't bare the humiliation of being falsely accused, the attacks against his person, and committed suicide.

He and his wife committed suicide—this very patriotic person.

It's such a pity. So many talented people [committed suicide].

I believe that Chairman Mao's starting point of the Cultural Revolution definitely wasn't like that.

But other people added fuel to the fire, used [the Cultural Revolution] to advance their own agenda.

It got out of control, right up to the end.

Think about it: on that pitch-black night, my father said, "You see: the sky is dark, but the stars still shine...

...You all may not believe in me, you may doubt me, but you may not doubt the Communist Party."

[Even] after experiencing so much torment, [after] years as a fugitive,...

...after he came back and had not yet been rehabilitated, but had been demoted, he still made this kind of statement.