WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.120 align:center line:-1Interviewer: OK. [What] decade were you born? You don’t need to say the exact year. 2 00:00:03.130 --> 00:00:05.430 align:center line:-1 [I was born in] the 1960s. 3 00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:07.990 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Where did you live in China [during the Cultural Revolution]? 4 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:09.750 align:center line:-1 Beijing. 5 00:00:09.760 --> 00:00:17.350 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: During these 10 minutes, you may share with us the memories you most want to share [about the Cultural Revolution]. 6 00:00:17.360 --> 00:00:19.020 align:center line:-1 Poverty. 7 00:00:19.030 --> 00:00:21.630 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: In Beijing? Even in Beijing? 8 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:26.290 align:center line:-1 [Yes]. Poor, really poor. Let’s talk about basic needs in everyday life. 9 00:00:26.300 --> 00:00:32.010 align:center line:-1 As for food—in Beijing, [we] weren’t starving, but [we were still] pretty miserable. 10 00:00:32.020 --> 00:00:42.590 align:center line:-1 All year round, there were very few vegetables. Just cabbage, potatoes, and radishes. 11 00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:43.630 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: There weren’t any of these? 12 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:46.850 align:center line:-1 There were, [but] only these kinds [of vegetables]. 13 00:00:46.860 --> 00:00:55.990 align:center line:-1 But as for meat, each person could only get a certain amount per month—very little per person. 14 00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:00.120 align:center line:-1 Everything had a ration ticket. You might not know this. You may have never heard about it. 15 00:01:00.130 --> 00:01:04.130 align:center line:-1 Based on how many people were in a family, there was a ration book. 16 00:01:04.140 --> 00:01:06.350 align:center line:-1 Every time you bought something, you got a checkmark in [the book]. 17 00:01:06.360 --> 00:01:10.420 align:center line:-1 At the time, the stores weren’t privately owned; they were all state-run stores. 18 00:01:10.430 --> 00:01:14.660 align:center line:-1 For each item you bought, you got a checkmark. 19 00:01:14.670 --> 00:01:22.230 align:center line:-1 When we cooked—we lived in a hutong [neighborhood of connected alleys]—[our parents would say], “Go buy 10 cents’ worth of meat.” 20 00:01:22.240 --> 00:01:25.990 align:center line:-1 I’d go with 10 cents in my pocket. 10 cents’ worth was [a thin strip of meat]. 21 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:27.430 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: How many people could eat [from that]? 22 00:01:27.440 --> 00:01:32.990 align:center line:-1 Our family had six people. [The meat] was only used to add some flavor when stir-frying vegetables. 23 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:40.620 align:center line:-1 Anyway, that was what we had. As for grain, there was a set amount of rice [you could get]—very little—it was called “refined grain.” 24 00:01:40.630 --> 00:01:46.730 align:center line:-1 There might’ve been some “coarse grain” like corn and things, some flour. 25 00:01:46.740 --> 00:01:52.450 align:center line:-1 But Beijing was certainly much better than other places; we did not go hungry. 26 00:01:52.460 --> 00:01:56.450 align:center line:-1 However, during that time, nutrition was really poor. 27 00:01:56.460 --> 00:02:02.770 align:center line:-1 [I] was really thin; if you look at photos of me as a kid, I was as thin as a refugee–extremely thin. 28 00:02:02.780 --> 00:02:13.180 align:center line:-1 When I went to university in the 1980s, I was still that thin, because of the influence [of poor nutrition] in childhood. 29 00:02:13.190 --> 00:02:17.190 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: What do you think caused these economic issues? 30 00:02:17.200 --> 00:02:18.690 align:center line:-1 The chaos! 31 00:02:18.700 --> 00:02:20.510 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: So there was nothing to be done… 32 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:23.140 align:center line:-1 It was chaotic, with little production. 33 00:02:23.150 --> 00:02:29.990 align:center line:-1 I just remember when I was really little, I don’t know what really happened,... 34 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:36.490 align:center line:-1 ...[but] for a while people were on the streets banging drums [because] Chairman Mao’s newest directive had been announced. 35 00:02:36.500 --> 00:02:42.110 align:center line:-1 Everyone went out in the streets to welcome this newest directive. 36 00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:50.060 align:center line:-1 You’d grab the little red book and— ding ding dang dang —walk along banging drums. Thinking of it now, those days were really crazy. 37 00:02:50.070 --> 00:02:52.020 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: No one worked? No one produced— 38 00:02:52.030 --> 00:02:55.710 align:center line:-1 Right. But Beijing—Beijing… 39 00:02:55.720 --> 00:03:05.680 align:center line:-1 At the time, I was little, so I didn’t understand anything about producing, but anyway, I’d see—there was a factory next to our home—[I’d] see these [factory] workers, not working. 40 00:03:05.690 --> 00:03:11.830 align:center line:-1 [If] they said they were going to the restroom, they’d sit around the hutong for half the day. 41 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:15.370 align:center line:-1 Anyway, [they] just stayed there and did nothing. 42 00:03:15.380 --> 00:03:21.000 align:center line:-1 However, later I heard how it was in places outside [Beijing], but in Beijing, it was not that… 43 00:03:21.010 --> 00:03:22.990 align:center line:-1 Because it was difficult for most people to come into Beijing. 44 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:24.910 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: At that time, it was already difficult to come in [to Beijing]? 45 00:03:24.920 --> 00:03:27.040 align:center line:-1 Right, difficult to come in. You couldn’t just come in because you wanted to. 46 00:03:27.050 --> 00:03:28.990 align:center line:-1 If you wanted to enter Beijing, you had to first have a letter of introduction— 47 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:30.650 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: An exit-entry permit or something? 48 00:03:30.660 --> 00:03:36.780 align:center line:-1 A letter of introduction, not an exit-entry permit. At the time, people took trains to enter Beijing. 49 00:03:36.790 --> 00:03:40.050 align:center line:-1 Our family’s ancestors were from Northeast China. 50 00:03:40.060 --> 00:03:50.010 align:center line:-1 If our relatives from Northeast China wanted to come to Beijing—at the time, there was a person in our family who was in charge of sales or purchases for Benxi Steel. 51 00:03:50.020 --> 00:03:56.140 align:center line:-1 He’d come to Beijing several times a year. He told me, every time, he [had to show] a letter of introduction. 52 00:03:56.150 --> 00:04:00.480 align:center line:-1 Every time he came, he’d buy a lot of meat. 53 00:04:00.490 --> 00:04:02.990 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: [He’d] bring a lot of meat from other places? Or from here… 54 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:07.260 align:center line:-1 Right… No, he’d buy a lot of meat in Beijing and [take it] back to Northeast China [since] there was no meat in Northeast China. 55 00:04:07.270 --> 00:04:13.830 align:center line:-1 Sometimes, we’d save our own quota of meat [in] the ration book, and buy [meat] for him. 56 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:24.040 align:center line:-1 Or, besides the supply quota from the ration book, there was a certain amount you could buy freely. 57 00:04:24.050 --> 00:04:28.640 align:center line:-1 That is, one person could buy 10 or 20 cents’ worth of meat. [We] ate poorly. 58 00:04:28.650 --> 00:04:34.320 align:center line:-1 When it got to be winter—winter was horrible: boiled cabbage, stewed cabbage, stir-fried cabbage… 59 00:04:34.330 --> 00:04:35.990 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: It was all just cabbage. 60 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:37.830 align:center line:-1 Right, and boiled radish, stewed radish, stir-fried radish. 61 00:04:37.840 --> 00:04:40.990 align:center line:-1 That’s how it was day after day, plus 10 cents’ worth of meat. 62 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:45.320 align:center line:-1 Actually, our family still had it pretty good. [My parents] were both teachers. 63 00:04:45.330 --> 00:04:49.780 align:center line:-1 Teachers’ wages were relatively high. Workers were much worse off. 64 00:04:49.790 --> 00:04:53.220 align:center line:-1 In our courtyard in the hutong , there were three or four families in all. 65 00:04:53.230 --> 00:04:59.480 align:center line:-1 The other families were all workers. [You] couldn’t say it was “miserable,” since anyway, [we] were all about the same—we could eat until we were full. 66 00:04:59.490 --> 00:05:04.230 align:center line:-1 Even though there was nothing that great to eat, we didn’t go hungry, didn’t starve to death. 67 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:08.780 align:center line:-1 There was nothing to complain about, since we didn’t know anything really delicious to eat. 68 00:05:08.790 --> 00:05:15.010 align:center line:-1 At the time, having a fried pancake felt like celebrating New Year. So that was eating. 69 00:05:15.020 --> 00:05:17.080 align:center line:-1 Living [conditions] were definitely really terrible. 70 00:05:17.090 --> 00:05:18.790 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: You lived in a hutong , right? 71 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:25.610 align:center line:-1 [Yes]. Within the hutong were courtyards. Our courtyard was really, really rundown. 72 00:05:25.620 --> 00:05:31.540 align:center line:-1 Our family lived in Xicheng. Xicheng was an old district, with a lot of really rundown houses. 73 00:05:31.550 --> 00:05:36.340 align:center line:-1 Central party officials all lived in Xicheng; we lived alongside them. 74 00:05:36.350 --> 00:05:37.730 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: But it was still really rundown? 75 00:05:37.740 --> 00:05:47.330 align:center line:-1 Very rundown. The walls around the hutong were all leaning, as were the houses. [They’d] been there many years, those… 76 00:05:47.340 --> 00:05:48.420 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Those kinds of old houses? 77 00:05:48.430 --> 00:05:52.630 align:center line:-1 Right. They were all rental houses. At that time we were renting the house. 78 00:05:52.640 --> 00:05:57.300 align:center line:-1 The houses all belonged to the housing management authority, to the government. 79 00:05:57.310 --> 00:06:05.800 align:center line:-1 The monthly rent was really cheap. Later on, since it was in a courtyard, everyone was building houses in the courtyard. 80 00:06:05.810 --> 00:06:10.770 align:center line:-1 Later, my parents built a tiny house in the courtyard and moved in. 81 00:06:10.780 --> 00:06:12.960 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Oh, then [the original place] became yours? 82 00:06:12.970 --> 00:06:15.610 align:center line:-1 We three kids and our paternal grandmother [lived in it]. 83 00:06:15.620 --> 00:06:20.840 align:center line:-1 As for cooking, [we cooked] outside the window, in a little shed. 84 00:06:20.850 --> 00:06:22.410 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: At that time, did you still go to school? 85 00:06:22.420 --> 00:06:25.400 align:center line:-1 Going to school was very interesting. 86 00:06:25.410 --> 00:06:32.710 align:center line:-1 At school, the teacher didn’t teach anything, just “Long Live Chairman Mao!” and things like that. 87 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:39.180 align:center line:-1 Elementary school started from [learning] “Long Live Chairman Mao!” Just learning Chinese, Pinyin and all that. 88 00:06:39.190 --> 00:06:44.190 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: The teachers didn’t talk about anything [concerning] the environment at the time? Since you were too young— 89 00:06:44.200 --> 00:06:46.060 align:center line:-1 They talked [about it], but we didn’t understand. 90 00:06:46.070 --> 00:06:50.610 align:center line:-1 Anyway, there was so much going on—at one point, it was the Criticize Lin [Biao] and Criticize Confucius campaign, then Deng Xiaoping was being criticized. 91 00:06:50.620 --> 00:06:58.780 align:center line:-1 Oh, and also criticizing Lin Biao. I remember we went to [several different] kindergartens to write and put up “big-character posters.” 92 00:06:58.790 --> 00:07:00.460 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: [You] wrote them in kindergarten? 93 00:07:00.470 --> 00:07:03.820 align:center line:-1 No, in elementary school. I didn’t attend kindergarten, so I don’t know [if the kids wrote posters]. 94 00:07:03.830 --> 00:07:05.560 align:center line:-1 My paternal grandmother took care of me. 95 00:07:05.570 --> 00:07:11.060 align:center line:-1 When I went to elementary school, the Criticize Lin [Biao] and Criticize Confucius campaign was going on; we were writing “big character-posters.” 96 00:07:11.070 --> 00:07:12.990 align:center line:-1 How could I know who was who? 97 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:13.740 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: You wrote? 98 00:07:13.750 --> 00:07:14.500 align:center line:-1 [I] wrote! 99 00:07:14.510 --> 00:07:15.630 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: What did you write? 100 00:07:15.640 --> 00:07:19.490 align:center line:-1 Whatever, I just grabbed a piece of paper, a newspaper, and copied [from that]. 101 00:07:19.500 --> 00:07:20.630 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Did you write with a brush? 102 00:07:20.640 --> 00:07:25.960 align:center line:-1 [Yes], with a brush. Later, who else did I criticize? I just remember criticizing. 103 00:07:25.970 --> 00:07:31.690 align:center line:-1 Anyway, there was a lot going on--criticizing, hanging up “big-character posters.” 104 00:07:31.700 --> 00:07:34.320 align:center line:-1 At that time, [we] were all brainwashed, you know? 105 00:07:34.330 --> 00:07:37.640 align:center line:-1 [Everyone] was crazy. [We] didn’t have our own opinions. 106 00:07:37.650 --> 00:07:42.560 align:center line:-1 That is, whatever Chairman Mao said was right, whatever People’s Daily said was right. 107 00:07:42.570 --> 00:07:45.730 align:center line:-1 No one had their own opinion. Or at least, you acted like you didn’t have your own opinion. 108 00:07:45.740 --> 00:07:48.260 align:center line:-1 You’d just write [a poster], pick up a newspaper and copy it. 109 00:07:48.270 --> 00:07:52.100 align:center line:-1 After you copied it, you’d stick it up, and who would actually read it? 110 00:07:52.110 --> 00:07:55.180 align:center line:-1 At that time, we were six or seven years old. 111 00:07:55.190 --> 00:07:56.620 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: You just thought it was fun? 112 00:07:56.630 --> 00:07:59.780 align:center line:-1 It was just for fun—messing with people! 113 00:07:59.790 --> 00:08:06.000 align:center line:-1 At the time, there was “going against the tide,” right? 114 00:08:06.010 --> 00:08:10.790 align:center line:-1 Huang Shuai—I don’t know if you’ve heard of her—she refused to take exams or something. 115 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:20.460 align:center line:-1 What else? Wei Jingsheng, he’s in the U.S., right? At the time, he was also a “rebel element.” 116 00:08:20.470 --> 00:08:23.240 align:center line:-1 [Also, Zhang Tiesheng] handed in a blank exam booklet. 117 00:08:23.250 --> 00:08:28.250 align:center line:-1 He didn’t write anything at all, [as a way to] oppose how the bourgeoisie teach. 118 00:08:28.260 --> 00:08:32.500 align:center line:-1 It seems like it was something like that. I don’t quite [remember]. 119 00:08:32.510 --> 00:08:36.680 align:center line:-1 I just heard what other people said; I was just a kid and didn’t remember clearly. 120 00:08:36.690 --> 00:08:38.980 align:center line:-1 Anyway, it was that kind of meaning. 121 00:08:38.990 --> 00:08:42.890 align:center line:-1 Later, Wei Jingsheng was sent to prison or something—I forget. 122 00:08:42.900 --> 00:08:52.740 align:center line:-1 Now he is a democracy activist, who is really famous in North America. Besides Guo Wengui, he is probably the most famous one. 123 00:08:52.750 --> 00:08:57.370 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Do you have memories of Educated Youth being sent “up to the mountains and down to the countryside”? 124 00:08:57.380 --> 00:08:59.710 align:center line:-1 Yes! Didn’t I mention it to you? 125 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:03.020 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Yes, you mentioned it in an [电子邮件]. 126 00:09:03.030 --> 00:09:13.470 align:center line:-1 Oh! Anyway, “up to the mountains and down to the countryside” was up until… I remember… anyway, it was summer—or was it? 127 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:23.100 align:center line:-1 Middle school students had graduated. Rows of military transport vehicles would come, and these students would carry… 128 00:09:23.110 --> 00:09:26.220 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Was it really the military driving the trucks? 129 00:09:26.230 --> 00:09:31.390 align:center line:-1 It was that kind of… bus [公车]. We called it a “da jiao zi che” [military transport vehicle]. 130 00:09:31.400 --> 00:09:34.070 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Oh, “da jiao zi che.” I don't get it. 131 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:36.810 align:center line:-1 In Beijing, we called it “da jiao zi che” [military transport vehicle], bus [公车 ]. 132 00:09:36.820 --> 00:09:40.700 align:center line:-1 In general, it was [the kind] the army used, green. 133 00:09:40.710 --> 00:09:44.290 align:center line:-1 In order to hold so many students, it had to be that [kind of] vehicle. 134 00:09:44.300 --> 00:09:50.490 align:center line:-1 The students were really happy then, but they didn’t know what kind of place they were going to. [They were] just kids! 135 00:09:50.500 --> 00:09:54.590 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: How old were those [kids]? 136 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:58.300 align:center line:-1 Around high school [age] or so, I think. They were put [on the bus] and taken away. 137 00:09:58.310 --> 00:10:03.230 align:center line:-1 It was not like they were forced to go. There must have been mobilization ahead of time. 138 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:04.540 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Like signing up? 139 00:10:04.550 --> 00:10:07.110 align:center line:-1 There was no signing up—they all had to go. 140 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:10.130 align:center line:-1 It was just Educated Youth going “up to the mountains and down to the countryside.” 141 00:10:10.140 --> 00:10:12.940 align:center line:-1 Chairman Mao [sent them] with one sweep of his hand. 142 00:10:12.950 --> 00:10:19.430 align:center line:-1 In fact, there was nothing else for Chairman Mao to do, since the students were too restless. 143 00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:23.000 align:center line:-1 This was my later understanding. There was nothing else [Mao] could do. 144 00:10:23.010 --> 00:10:35.370 align:center line:-1 These kids were restless, with no jobs. Just send them away as soon as possible. 145 00:10:35.380 --> 00:10:37.780 align:center line:-1 But I didn’t go “up to the mountains and down to the countryside” because… 146 00:10:37.790 --> 00:10:38.990 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: You were still a student? 147 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:44.050 align:center line:-1 Right, I was still going to elementary school. I saw them [going away] and felt so envious, [thinking] they were going out to play. 148 00:10:44.060 --> 00:10:48.670 align:center line:-1 Going to the suburbs, to Yanqing and Shunyi—it was great! 149 00:10:48.680 --> 00:10:53.350 align:center line:-1 Green hills and clear water. How fun! How happy! 150 00:10:53.360 --> 00:11:00.430 align:center line:-1 After a while, those students came back. At the time, my father was a middle school teacher. 151 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:06.720 align:center line:-1 So, when the students came back, they visited my dad and chatted. 152 00:11:06.730 --> 00:11:08.210 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Talked about what they’d done there. 153 00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:17.810 align:center line:-1 How they’d suffered there, with nothing to eat, how cold it was in the winter, how hard they tried to come back to the city, to return to Beijing, etc. 154 00:11:17.820 --> 00:11:22.080 align:center line:-1 At the time, I thought, Ah! These students were all talking about Yanqing. 155 00:11:22.090 --> 00:11:26.710 align:center line:-1 They would talk with my dad, and as a kid, I’d be standing around listening without actually understanding. 156 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:30.690 align:center line:-1 Just hearing them talk about how cold Yanqing was, how whatever Shunyi was. 157 00:11:30.700 --> 00:11:40.650 align:center line:-1 At that time, there were no roads. There were only a few crummy roads within the city, and leaving the city were just primitive dirt roads. 158 00:11:40.660 --> 00:11:43.990 align:center line:-1 It was really not easy to come and go. 159 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:49.170 align:center line:-1 I remember later, when I was a bit older, but not yet in junior high school,... 160 00:11:49.180 --> 00:11:57.990 align:center line:-1 ...[the Cultural Revolution] was spoken about a few times—but I didn’t understand what it was all about. 161 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:03.320 align:center line:-1 My dad said, “Oh, the Cultural Revolution! A lot of stuff happened.” 162 00:12:03.330 --> 00:12:11.210 align:center line:-1 He couldn’t say the Communist party was also in turmoil; he just said he was also beaten, and… 163 00:12:11.220 --> 00:12:13.350 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: He was beaten? 164 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:15.830 align:center line:-1 [He] was beaten. [He was] a teacher—teachers were beaten by their students. 165 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:19.420 align:center line:-1 He said he was beaten, and the principal was beaten to death. 166 00:12:19.430 --> 00:12:24.300 align:center line:-1 He said, “You know Teacher Wu, right?” I said yes. 167 00:12:24.310 --> 00:12:35.830 align:center line:-1 He said, “At the time, [Teacher Wu and I] knelt there in rows and students beat us. Later, I couldn’t bear it anymore, so I just sent myself down to a small school to be a…” 168 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:37.080 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Middle school teacher? 169 00:12:37.090 --> 00:12:41.110 align:center line:-1 ...No, [he was] a worker in a school-owned workshop. 170 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:47.010 align:center line:-1 During the Cultural Revolution, [students] didn’t study, just fooled around. 171 00:12:47.020 --> 00:12:55.170 align:center line:-1 I asked [my dad], “[When] the Red Guards beat you, couldn’t you retaliate? Couldn’t you hit back?... 172 00:12:55.180 --> 00:12:59.310 align:center line:-1 ...You were just over 30 at the time; you were young and strong. Why didn’t you beat them?” 173 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:05.100 align:center line:-1 He said, “They had more people—how could you beat them? Also, we were considered ‘capitalist-roaders’ at that time... 174 00:13:05.110 --> 00:13:10.380 align:center line:-1 ...The students were Red Guards—how could you hit them, right? You couldn’t hit them." 175 00:13:10.390 --> 00:13:14.030 align:center line:-1 [My dad said], "So later, I just ran off; I just went to a small school to be a worker... 176 00:13:14.040 --> 00:13:17.480 align:center line:-1 ...Being a worker was actually pretty good—[I] later became the workshop head!” [Laughs]. 177 00:13:17.490 --> 00:13:22.690 align:center line:-1 After the Cultural Revolution, [my father] went back to [his] old school. 178 00:13:22.700 --> 00:13:27.000 align:center line:-1 All along, I didn’t understand clearly which years the Cultural Revolution took place in. 179 00:13:27.010 --> 00:13:37.170 align:center line:-1 It wasn’t until I read [information from] you that I knew it was [exactly] from 1966 to 1976, because I was really young at that time. 180 00:13:37.180 --> 00:13:44.210 align:center line:-1 But I remember, [when] Old Mao died, we were asked to go to the school, and [I] pretended to cry. I remember all these [things]. 181 00:13:44.220 --> 00:13:49.990 align:center line:-1 If you look at North Korea, it was just like that. It was exactly the same. 182 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:51.790 align:center line:-1 That is, people’s madness was just like that. 183 00:13:51.800 --> 00:13:56.430 align:center line:-1 We kids [felt], “Chairman Mao died? All right, whatever.” That’s how we thought about it. 184 00:13:56.440 --> 00:14:00.370 align:center line:-1 But when I saw everybody else pretending to cry, I pretended as well. The teacher said, “Stand up.” 185 00:14:00.380 --> 00:14:03.570 align:center line:-1 [The teacher] said something was going on, and [asked us] to listen to the school’s broadcast. 186 00:14:03.580 --> 00:14:07.580 align:center line:-1 It said, “Chairman Mao has died.” Chairman Mao died? Chairman Mao died! 187 00:14:07.590 --> 00:14:10.040 align:center line:-1 What should we do when Chairman Mao died? What should we do next? 188 00:14:10.050 --> 00:14:17.040 align:center line:-1 Chairman Mao—we couldn’t say he was a god, [but]… How could we survive without Chairman Mao! What could we do? 189 00:14:17.050 --> 00:14:24.170 align:center line:-1 At that time, we kids just thought, What can we do? Whatever, let’s play soccer later. 190 00:14:24.180 --> 00:14:29.160 align:center line:-1 And then, in 1976, there was an earthquake, the Great Tangshan Earthquake. 191 00:14:29.170 --> 00:14:35.490 align:center line:-1 [During that time], we played happily, living in earthquake tents. 192 00:14:35.500 --> 00:14:40.000 align:center line:-1 We didn’t dare live in our houses then—our rundown houses, those houses that leaned. 193 00:14:40.010 --> 00:14:45.650 align:center line:-1 So we set up a small tent on the school’s sports field. Peasants were even more miserable. 194 00:14:45.660 --> 00:14:54.460 align:center line:-1 It wasn’t until later that I heard—I didn’t see this, to be clear—peasants didn’t have anything to eat; there was famine in areas outside [Beijing], etc. 195 00:14:54.470 --> 00:15:00.020 align:center line:-1 I really didn’t know. Today, you have good things to eat and good clothes to wear. 196 00:15:00.030 --> 00:15:06.850 align:center line:-1 You feel that era is tragic. But actually, compared to that time, [I] feel we’re the tragic ones today. 197 00:15:06.860 --> 00:15:12.990 align:center line:-1 Even though you eat well, and you wear nice clothes, you think too much every day—it’s painful. 198 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:18.460 align:center line:-1 Personally, I think today, [after] Reform and Opening, is definitely good. 199 00:15:18.470 --> 00:15:24.050 align:center line:-1 But if you’re talking about back then… it’s hard to evaluate altogether. 200 00:15:24.060 --> 00:15:31.850 align:center line:-1 How painful was that time for individuals? At the time, I didn’t feel it was that painful. 201 00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:36.390 align:center line:-1 We didn’t have to study a lot. Every day, kids went to school but didn’t study. 202 00:15:36.400 --> 00:15:40.190 align:center line:-1 [We’d] go home and play soccer with kids in the hutong , run around. 203 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:48.100 align:center line:-1 Simply speaking, fools are always happy. At that time, people’s IQ probably was negative. 204 00:15:48.110 --> 00:15:49.500 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Simple, right? 205 00:15:49.510 --> 00:15:51.990 align:center line:-1 Right. So, [kids] were all happy. 206 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:55.700 align:center line:-1 [The experience of] those people who went “up to the mountains and down to the countryside” was painful, right? 207 00:15:55.710 --> 00:15:57.410 align:center line:-1 But I think maybe it wasn’t that painful. 208 00:15:57.420 --> 00:16:03.320 align:center line:-1 They didn’t eat well in the countryside, [but] they didn’t know what was good. 209 00:16:03.330 --> 00:16:07.760 align:center line:-1 Because at that time, didn’t we all feel Americans were more miserable? 210 00:16:07.770 --> 00:16:14.990 align:center line:-1 We even talked about liberating Taiwan, saving all the suffering people in the world, [thinking] how miserable Americans were. 211 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:20.550 align:center line:-1 It was just like how North Korean people think about Americans today, saying, “They’re miserable, so poor, with nothing to eat,... 212 00:16:20.560 --> 00:16:25.940 align:center line:-1 ...but for us [North Korean people], under our supreme leader’s guidance, we live such happy lives.” 213 00:16:25.950 --> 00:16:30.050 align:center line:-1 It’s the same. People’s feelings of happiness come from a comparison. 214 00:16:30.060 --> 00:16:39.990 align:center line:-1 Today, if you read some things written by overseas Chinese, sometimes, if you read [things written by] the Second Red Generation, they say [the same thing]. 215 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:45.580 align:center line:-1 Like Chen Yi’s son, [or] Deng Xiaoping and Deng Pufang—they were all Red Guards. 216 00:16:45.590 --> 00:16:54.210 align:center line:-1 Why are Deng Pufang’s legs paralyzed? Because the [opposing] faction of Red Guards surrounded him, and beat him. 217 00:16:54.220 --> 00:16:56.990 align:center line:-1 He was in one faction, and there was another faction… 218 00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:59.030 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Oh, they also split into factions? 219 00:16:59.040 --> 00:17:04.390 align:center line:-1 Of course! They fought fiercely. They really fought each other—had guns and explosives! I didn’t see it, but it’s been said. 220 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:06.320 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: They really fought? Really fought physically? 221 00:17:06.330 --> 00:17:14.100 align:center line:-1 They really fought with all their might! Then later, Deng Pufang couldn’t bear it, and jumped off a building at Tsinghua [University]. 222 00:17:14.110 --> 00:17:23.300 align:center line:-1 At that time, there were a lot of incidents of people committing suicide or trying to commit suicide by jumping [from buildings], such as Lao She, who jumped into a lake to commit suicide. 223 00:17:23.310 --> 00:17:33.610 align:center line:-1 Particularly those intellectuals, those who experienced the Kuomintang era, who had seen the world, thought the Communist Party was making a mess; there was no democracy. 224 00:17:33.620 --> 00:17:37.590 align:center line:-1 [They] thought, “The Communist Party lied to us, promised democracy, but now it has turned into this…” 225 00:17:37.600 --> 00:17:48.310 align:center line:-1 They probably couldn’t deal with it. [But] of course, there were many people who sucked up to the Communist Party to earn a living. 226 00:17:48.320 --> 00:18:02.020 align:center line:-1 There are a lot of examples, such as Wang Meng. Many of them—they did pretty good in the Kuomintang era, like Qian Qichen and Qian Xuesen. 227 00:18:02.030 --> 00:18:11.520 align:center line:-1 They weren’t good people, were all opportunists, you know. 228 00:18:11.530 --> 00:18:24.200 align:center line:-1