WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:03.640 align:center line:-1Interviewer: Hello! Thank you for accepting my interview. 2 00:00:03.650 --> 00:00:07.350 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: First, could you please tell me the decade of your birth? 3 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:10.090 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: You don’t need to say the exact year, [just] “1920s,” “1930s,” “1940s,” etc. will do. 4 00:00:10.100 --> 00:00:11.610 align:center line:-1 1930s. 5 00:00:11.620 --> 00:00:18.830 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: 1930s. During the 10 years from 1966 to 1976, where did you live in China? 6 00:00:18.840 --> 00:00:23.420 align:center line:-1 At the time [I] was in Tongren, Guizhou [Province]. 7 00:00:23.430 --> 00:00:30.490 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Since you were born in the 1930s, you must have many memories of the Cultural Revolution. 8 00:00:30.500 --> 00:00:32.300 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Even with several days and nights, you probably couldn’t talk about everything. 9 00:00:32.310 --> 00:00:42.930 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: If I only give you about 10 minutes, or in other words, in the first 10 minutes [of the interview], without preparation, could you share the memories that immediately come to mind? 10 00:00:42.940 --> 00:00:44.750 align:center line:-1 Sure. 11 00:00:44.760 --> 00:00:51.960 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Thank you. You may speak freely. 12 00:00:51.970 --> 00:00:59.380 align:center line:-1 To speak of the Cultural Revolution…during the Cultural Revolution, I was [working] in a school. 13 00:00:59.390 --> 00:01:07.220 align:center line:-1 Our group had three people surnamed XXX. I was the group leader. 14 00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:13.540 align:center line:-1 These three people were all well-known in that district. 15 00:01:13.550 --> 00:01:21.680 align:center line:-1 At the time, the Cultural Revolution came along, [and] since [these three people] were all well-known, we were called the “Three-Family Village.” 16 00:01:21.690 --> 00:01:24.990 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Beijing had the “Three-Family Village [Anti-Party Clique],” and you had a “Three-Family Village” there as well. 17 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:29.420 align:center line:-1 We were called the “Three-Family Village,” [became] the same type as Liao Mosha. 18 00:01:29.430 --> 00:01:45.910 align:center line:-1 In the end, they couldn’t find any material [to use against me], and [I] was the head, so [I was labeled part of] the bourgeois “those in power.” 19 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:46.650 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: A “capitalist-roader.” 20 00:01:46.660 --> 00:01:53.060 align:center line:-1 A “capitalist-roader.” They wanted materials [as evidence] to struggle against me. 21 00:01:53.070 --> 00:01:56.990 align:center line:-1 What could they do? They [wanted to use] my teaching materials to struggle against me. 22 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:01.990 align:center line:-1 [However], there were no teaching materials, since I taught physical education. 23 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:09.770 align:center line:-1 At the time, the textbook had been published by People’s Publishing House. 24 00:02:09.780 --> 00:02:13.990 align:center line:-1 [It had] a little game [in it], “Guess the Leader.” 25 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:21.190 align:center line:-1 Since it was an elementary school, [we used] some games to teach the children. 26 00:02:21.200 --> 00:02:22.500 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: “Guess the Leader”? 27 00:02:22.510 --> 00:02:23.990 align:center line:-1 Right. “Guess the Leader” was a game. 28 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:25.670 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Oh, it was the name of a game. 29 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:28.750 align:center line:-1 Yes. It was a game called “Guess the Leader.” 30 00:02:28.760 --> 00:02:37.520 align:center line:-1 At the time, a student pointed out, “We obviously know our leader is Mao Zedong—why do you still want [us] to guess?... 31 00:02:37.530 --> 00:02:43.200 align:center line:-1 ...Is it that [you] hope our leader will be replaced with another?” 32 00:02:43.210 --> 00:02:48.500 align:center line:-1 As a result, this accusation was added—[I] obviously knew, [but] still wanted to guess the leader. 33 00:02:48.510 --> 00:02:50.710 align:center line:-1 This was one [piece of material used against me]. 34 00:02:50.720 --> 00:02:55.540 align:center line:-1 Another game was called “The Eagle Grabs the Little Chicks.” 35 00:02:55.550 --> 00:02:57.460 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: “The Eagle Grabs the Little Chicks.” We played this as children. 36 00:02:57.470 --> 00:03:01.810 align:center line:-1 [We] all played it. During class, I’d have [my students] play this game. 37 00:03:01.820 --> 00:03:13.500 align:center line:-1 [They] made an inaccurate comparison, [asking], “What is the eagle? It’s England, the British Empire... 38 00:03:13.510 --> 00:03:19.690 align:center line:-1 ...You know that the British Empire wants to come and grab our China’s little chicks; the little chicks are our China... 39 00:03:19.700 --> 00:03:26.490 align:center line:-1 ...[You] have a notion to let imperialism come and invade China.” 40 00:03:26.500 --> 00:03:29.780 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Who was it [who said this]? Was it someone from your own school’s rebel faction? 41 00:03:29.790 --> 00:03:30.010 align:center line:-1 Yes. [From the] rebel faction. 42 00:03:30.020 --> 00:03:33.180 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: The rebel faction. [Was it] a student, or a teacher? 43 00:03:33.190 --> 00:03:39.880 align:center line:-1 There were both teachers and students. These were the accusations. 44 00:03:39.890 --> 00:03:49.440 align:center line:-1 [To make] these accusations, they’d looked for some content from my classes; they couldn’t find anything else. 45 00:03:49.450 --> 00:03:57.000 align:center line:-1 Usually, my relationship with students was good. [I] didn’t usually have much interaction with other colleagues. 46 00:03:57.010 --> 00:03:59.390 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Did you experience hardships? 47 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:12.190 align:center line:-1 After I’d been labeled a bourgeois “capitalist-roader,” [they] wanted me to do reform through labor. 48 00:04:12.200 --> 00:04:23.090 align:center line:-1 At the time, there was a place close to us called XXX Mountain; it was about 10-20 kilometers away. 49 00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:27.480 align:center line:-1 [I] carried my backpack and my hoe, and set off for the mountains to do manual labor. 50 00:04:27.490 --> 00:04:33.950 align:center line:-1 Because my relationship with the students was good, [some] students picked up the hoe for me and carried the backpack. 51 00:04:33.960 --> 00:04:36.390 align:center line:-1 [They] wouldn’t let me do manual labor when we reached the mountain. 52 00:04:36.400 --> 00:04:38.240 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: [Those] students were really good. 53 00:04:38.250 --> 00:04:39.830 align:center line:-1 [They] wouldn’t let me do manual labor. 54 00:04:39.840 --> 00:04:49.520 align:center line:-1 Every day, [they] accompanied me to the countryside, and wouldn’t let me do manual labor. Sometimes I’d play chess with them. 55 00:04:49.530 --> 00:04:50.390 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Play chess. 56 00:04:50.400 --> 00:04:58.620 align:center line:-1 Yes. Every day it was like this. [If we were] hungry—at the time students didn’t have money. 57 00:04:58.630 --> 00:05:08.450 align:center line:-1 I’d get [my] money, [and] they’d walk more than 10 kilometers to Maya to buy steamed bread—more than 10 kilometers, up and down the mountain. 58 00:05:08.460 --> 00:05:13.420 align:center line:-1 That steamed bread was not so large, and black. The students didn’t have money. 59 00:05:13.430 --> 00:05:17.470 align:center line:-1 I treated my students to eat it. Then I ate. 60 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:21.990 align:center line:-1 All in all, I didn’t experience hardship from manual labor. The students were good to me. 61 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:23.950 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: How long did you [have to] go there? 62 00:05:23.960 --> 00:05:30.410 align:center line:-1 About a month and a half. I grew corn. 63 00:05:30.420 --> 00:05:32.200 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Grew corn. 64 00:05:32.210 --> 00:05:37.990 align:center line:-1 Grew corn. When growing corn, [after] dropping a few kernels of corn, there was no need to fertilize. 65 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:42.090 align:center line:-1 [The earth] has sulfur and nitrogen elements. It would just grow. 66 00:05:42.100 --> 00:05:47.500 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: That land was really fertile, right? No need to fertilize. 67 00:05:47.510 --> 00:05:51.470 align:center line:-1 Right—no need. At harvest time, we went there again. 68 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:53.990 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: To harvest it. 69 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:58.490 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Depending on the heavens for food. [You] didn’t need to water [the plants], since they were watered by the rain. 70 00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:06.400 align:center line:-1 Yes. [We did this] for about a month. Then, in the end, at harvest time we went to pick [the corn]. 71 00:06:06.410 --> 00:06:09.570 align:center line:-1 Otherwise, there was nothing else [to do]. 72 00:06:09.580 --> 00:06:11.660 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: At that time, classes were suspended. 73 00:06:11.670 --> 00:06:15.900 align:center line:-1 From my point of view, classes were suspended, [but] students were still attending class. 74 00:06:15.910 --> 00:06:17.340 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Oh, students were still attending class. 75 00:06:17.350 --> 00:06:21.990 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Oh, that’s a difference: at that time, Beijing had already “suspended classes to make revolution”; [students] weren’t going to class. 76 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:24.300 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: [You] were still having classes [in Tongren, Guizhou]. 77 00:06:24.310 --> 00:06:31.540 align:center line:-1 Our students were still attending classes. It was just that the so-called “cow-demons and snake-spirits” had been separated. 78 00:06:31.550 --> 00:06:34.420 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: It was just "capitalist-roaders" like you who had gone to do manual labor, but students were still attending classes. 79 00:06:34.430 --> 00:06:42.630 align:center line:-1 Right. The rebel faction followed the “cow-demons and snake-spirits.” 80 00:06:42.640 --> 00:06:48.010 align:center line:-1 At the time, our leaders all fell; not a single one escaped. 81 00:06:48.020 --> 00:06:58.180 align:center line:-1 Every day [we had to] proclaim [our] plans for the day and give an update on [our] activities in the evening, and [do] so-called confessions. 82 00:06:58.190 --> 00:07:16.170 align:center line:-1 We saw a reporter from Beijing, named XXX, who was in charge of reporting on the field of research study at that time, be taken there to be struggled against. 83 00:07:16.180 --> 00:07:18.170 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Taken to [your area in Guizhou] to be struggled against? 84 00:07:18.180 --> 00:07:33.270 align:center line:-1 [Yes]. [They] stood in a line, and during proclaiming plans for the night, [they] asked the reporter, “Do you love or hate the Red Guards, after all?” 85 00:07:33.280 --> 00:07:36.010 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Who did they ask? [They] asked this reporter? 86 00:07:36.020 --> 00:07:45.290 align:center line:-1 They asked this [reporter] named XXX. Then, two [people] in front of him were beaten cruelly. 87 00:07:45.300 --> 00:07:48.990 align:center line:-1 [The first person] said, “I hate the Red Guards.” 88 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:54.750 align:center line:-1 “You hate the Red Guards?!” [they said]. "You must all hate the Red Guards!" [They] just slapped him. 89 00:07:54.760 --> 00:07:58.880 align:center line:-1 Everyone surely hated [the Red Guards]. You hated the Red Guards very much. 90 00:07:58.890 --> 00:08:02.040 align:center line:-1 “We really love the Red Guards, [but] you hate them?!” [they said]. 91 00:08:02.050 --> 00:08:08.170 align:center line:-1 The second [person] said, “I neither love nor hate [the Red Guards],” and was slapped, too. 92 00:08:08.180 --> 00:08:12.870 align:center line:-1 [They] asked [the reporter], “Do you love or hate [the Red Guards]?” 93 00:08:12.880 --> 00:08:17.010 align:center line:-1 [He] said, “Love, absolutely,” [but] was slapped. 94 00:08:17.020 --> 00:08:20.830 align:center line:-1 Blood ran out of [his] nose; his glasses were knocked off. 95 00:08:20.840 --> 00:08:27.950 align:center line:-1 [He] said, “Love is no good, and neither is hate?” 96 00:08:27.960 --> 00:08:41.020 align:center line:-1 [His opponent] didn’t answer. [Other people] didn’t dare to speak; didn’t say “love” or “hate.” 97 00:08:41.030 --> 00:08:46.910 align:center line:-1 They didn’t reveal their attitude. [The Red Guards] didn’t get a chance to beat them. That's what I saw. 98 00:08:46.920 --> 00:08:50.120 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Were the Red Guards there local, or had they “networked” to go there? 99 00:08:50.130 --> 00:08:51.610 align:center line:-1 They were all students. 100 00:08:51.620 --> 00:08:53.100 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: All local [students]. 101 00:08:53.110 --> 00:09:01.860 align:center line:-1 Right. Students from [our] school. Wearing red arm bands, Red Guards. 102 00:09:01.870 --> 00:09:08.860 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Did you have students who came from other places to Guizhou for “networking”? 103 00:09:08.870 --> 00:09:16.020 align:center line:-1 “Networking” didn’t come to our school. Our school’s students came back from “networking.” 104 00:09:16.030 --> 00:09:17.890 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: [You had students who] went out, “networked” [in other places]. 105 00:09:17.900 --> 00:09:21.800 align:center line:-1 [They] had come back. We’d also followed the Red Guards to go out [for “networking”]. 106 00:09:21.810 --> 00:09:23.220 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Oh, you also went [“networking”]? 107 00:09:23.230 --> 00:09:25.110 align:center line:-1 [Yes], before I became the target of attack. 108 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:27.190 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Oh, before you were the target. 109 00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:38.130 align:center line:-1 [Yes, I] also went along. As a result, when [I] came back, [my name] was circled, check-marked; I became the target of struggle. 110 00:09:38.140 --> 00:09:40.650 align:center line:-1 There were only a few people who were not struggled against. 111 00:09:40.660 --> 00:09:50.840 align:center line:-1 In general, they all were toppled. I was [one of] “those in power,” a “capitalist-roader,” and I had a somewhat “problematic history.” 112 00:09:50.850 --> 00:09:58.790 align:center line:-1 Others without a “problematic history” had “active problems.” 113 00:09:58.800 --> 00:10:08.150 align:center line:-1 I remember there was one teacher. The Red Guard salute was to raise one’s hand. 114 00:10:08.160 --> 00:10:12.560 align:center line:-1 [This teacher] said, “This is creating a sect.” 115 00:10:12.570 --> 00:10:17.680 align:center line:-1 With this one statement, [the teacher was labeled] a rightist. 116 00:10:17.690 --> 00:10:26.540 align:center line:-1 I also have a friend, who had always been a faithful believer in Chairman Mao. 117 00:10:26.550 --> 00:10:33.990 align:center line:-1 [One time, he’d] finished reading a newspaper, [so he] rolled it up and threw it away. 118 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:35.700 align:center line:-1 It had Chairman Mao’s portrait on it. 119 00:10:35.710 --> 00:10:38.830 align:center line:-1 As a result, [he was] caught and [labeled] an active counter-revolutionary. 120 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:42.990 align:center line:-1 He’d been a good student of Chairman Mao year after year. 121 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:53.490 align:center line:-1 [Even so], in an instant he was turned into a counter-revolutionary, just [because] he threw away a newspaper. 122 00:10:53.500 --> 00:10:53.995 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Thank you.
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