WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.230 --> 00:00:03.620 align:center line:-1Interviewer: Thank you for accepting my interview. 2 00:00:03.630 --> 00:00:06.780 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: First, could you please tell me approximately when you were born? 3 00:00:06.790 --> 00:00:11.480 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: You don’t need to say the exact year; for example, was it the 1960s, 1970s, or 1980s? 4 00:00:11.490 --> 00:00:13.970 align:center line:-1 I was born in the ’60s. 5 00:00:13.980 --> 00:00:22.650 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Then, could you please tell me, from 1966 to 1976, where did you live in China? 6 00:00:22.660 --> 00:00:27.080 align:center line:-1 I’m from Beijing. I was in Beijing. 7 00:00:27.090 --> 00:00:34.550 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: OK. Since you were born in the 1960s, your impressions of the Cultural Revolution might not be very deep, but you’d still have had some experience [of it], right? 8 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:40.890 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: I know that if I gave you some time to talk about your memories, you could probably say a lot. 9 00:00:40.900 --> 00:00:45.780 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: If I only give you about 10 minutes, that is to say, in the first 10 minutes [of this interview]... 10 00:00:45.790 --> 00:00:59.190 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: ...what memories of history, or understanding [of the Cultural Revolution]—what comments [评论] would you most want to share [分享] with us? 11 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:05.540 align:center line:-1 I have no memories of the early stage [of the Cultural Revolution], since I was born in the same year the Cultural Revolution [started]. 12 00:01:05.550 --> 00:01:09.770 align:center line:-1 So, for the first few years, I generally have no really deep memories. 13 00:01:09.780 --> 00:01:18.170 align:center line:-1 Also, my family’s situation was somewhat unique, so...my family experienced some impacts, but none were that serious. 14 00:01:18.180 --> 00:01:25.900 align:center line:-1 So I don’t have that many deep memories [or] memories of what was going on in society. 15 00:01:25.910 --> 00:01:35.880 align:center line:-1 After I got older, I remember air raid shelters being dug, dancing the loyalty dance—I still remember, and maybe [I] also danced it. 16 00:01:35.890 --> 00:01:40.280 align:center line:-1 An air raid shelter was dug in front of our house. 17 00:01:40.290 --> 00:01:48.030 align:center line:-1 Other memories...hmm...I also heard about violent struggle, but I didn’t actually see it myself. 18 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:59.530 align:center line:-1 Elementary school was relatively relaxed. We were quite close with our neighbors, and there were a lot of kids. 19 00:01:59.540 --> 00:02:04.450 align:center line:-1 After school, [we] just played, and there wasn’t much pressure about homework. 20 00:02:04.460 --> 00:02:08.520 align:center line:-1 In the place where I [lived], politicization was pretty strong. 21 00:02:08.530 --> 00:02:17.830 align:center line:-1 For example, in our elementary school, [we] heard Jiang Qing had come to Peking University to speak, and some classmates saw [her]. 22 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:23.450 align:center line:-1 Then, when we were in class, the lesson stopped, and we started listening to the radio, 23 00:02:23.460 --> 00:02:29.460 align:center line:-1 and listening to kids telling stories about seeing “Auntie Jiang Qing.” 24 00:02:29.470 --> 00:02:36.990 align:center line:-1 One deep impression is that there were some invisible controls. 25 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:46.180 align:center line:-1 One funny thing is that a classmate told me, “If you want to swear an oath with someone, don’t say ‘in the name of Chairman Mao’-- 26 00:02:46.190 --> 00:02:55.160 align:center line:-1 "--say ‘in the name of Chairman Mule’—say it quickly, and later you won’t have to own up to [your oath].” 27 00:02:55.170 --> 00:03:15.330 align:center line:-1 Later, I actually said this once, I [forget] where, and our school’s director called me out of class to chat with me, asking me what I had done, what problems I was having. 28 00:03:15.340 --> 00:03:24.750 align:center line:-1 [He] didn’t tell me what I’d done [wrong], just made me say myself what bad thing I’d done. 29 00:03:24.760 --> 00:03:38.290 align:center line:-1 I thought and thought, and finally spoke about this. In the end, it was settled by not being settled; finally, there was no serious [repercussion]. 30 00:03:38.300 --> 00:03:45.830 align:center line:-1 Another thing is, something unusual about me is that from the time I was small, I’ve been pretty sensitive to politics. 31 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:48.050 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: You’re interested [in it] personally, right? 32 00:03:48.060 --> 00:04:03.450 align:center line:-1 It’s that I know quite a bit, and have some reactions. For example, the day Chairman Mao died, we were not allowed to go home until the afternoon. 33 00:04:03.460 --> 00:04:08.750 align:center line:-1 Later, I saw the teacher run out crying from the office. 34 00:04:08.760 --> 00:04:16.210 align:center line:-1 Actually, that day when we weren’t allowed to go home, I’d guessed [what had happened]. At that time, I was only about 9 or 10. 35 00:04:16.220 --> 00:04:17.370 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: What had you guessed? 36 00:04:17.380 --> 00:04:18.880 align:center line:-1 I'd guessed that Chairman Mao had died. 37 00:04:18.890 --> 00:04:20.480 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: How did you guess? 38 00:04:20.490 --> 00:04:31.430 align:center line:-1 Before, when the head of state, Zhu De, had died, the procedures and the quality [of the atmosphere] were different. 39 00:04:31.440 --> 00:04:39.950 align:center line:-1 [Based on] the feeling of that day, I guessed that things would only be so serious if Chairman Mao had died. 40 00:04:39.960 --> 00:04:44.730 align:center line:-1 At the time, it seemed like [no one] dared imagine Chairman Mao would die. 41 00:04:44.740 --> 00:04:48.550 align:center line:-1 That’s how it was—[I] was 10 years old at the time. 42 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:58.440 align:center line:-1 Later, after the news spread throughout the school, classmates were crying [with their heads on] the desks. But one classmate went outside. 43 00:04:58.450 --> 00:05:06.400 align:center line:-1 [He] didn’t cry, just caught some crickets. Then, the crickets were killed by [his] classmates. Then he cried. 44 00:05:06.410 --> 00:05:12.310 align:center line:-1 Our teacher criticized [him], saying, “Chairman Mao dies and [you] don’t cry; instead [you] cry when crickets die.” 45 00:05:12.320 --> 00:05:14.240 align:center line:-1 That kid was pretty naughty. 46 00:05:14.250 --> 00:05:22.090 align:center line:-1 As for me, [I] couldn’t cry; [I was] pretty indifferent. At the time, I was pretty big; I sat in the back [of the classroom]. 47 00:05:22.100 --> 00:05:33.640 align:center line:-1 Probably only 10 percent of our class, only five or six people, weren’t crying. Everyone else was wailing; some were lying across the desks wailing. 48 00:05:33.650 --> 00:05:36.750 align:center line:-1 I couldn’t stand it, and laid [my head] on the desk, laughing. 49 00:05:36.760 --> 00:05:46.560 align:center line:-1 It wasn’t [because of] something else...I just saw my classmates crying, and thought it was so funny. I couldn’t help it. 50 00:05:46.570 --> 00:05:50.580 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: It wasn’t that you felt Chairman Mao dying was funny, but that your classmates were laughable. 51 00:05:50.590 --> 00:05:56.250 align:center line:-1 Right. I just thought it was laughable when I saw my classmates crying. 52 00:05:56.260 --> 00:06:03.900 align:center line:-1 I’m kind of an idiot, or it could be said that I don’t care much about stuff [like this]. 53 00:06:03.910 --> 00:06:15.490 align:center line:-1 [I] also heard a bit about the April 5 [1976] Tiananmen Incident and things like that, but the adults didn’t talk about it with us. 54 00:06:15.500 --> 00:06:23.080 align:center line:-1 I remember, after the Gang of Four was crushed, my paternal grandfather said, “Ah, they got what they deserved.” 55 00:06:23.090 --> 00:06:31.040 align:center line:-1 When it wasn’t yet public, after I heard about it, I still didn’t know who they were, but anyway, I knew they’d met with trouble. 56 00:06:31.050 --> 00:06:42.640 align:center line:-1 From my point of view, the Cultural Revolution, that era, was rather pleasant [愉快], a rather happy time. 57 00:06:42.650 --> 00:06:47.530 align:center line:-1 [Children] had no responsibilities; kids played freely, not like kids today, whose education is so arduous. 58 00:06:47.540 --> 00:06:49.240 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Exam-oriented education. 59 00:06:49.250 --> 00:07:04.340 align:center line:-1 Right—it’s tough. I could say that, about my family environment at the time, all in all, my family was a benefactor of the Communist Party’s rule. 60 00:07:04.350 --> 00:07:11.700 align:center line:-1 My parents were intellectuals as well as Party members; so, the Communist Party treated them pretty well. 61 00:07:11.710 --> 00:07:19.660 align:center line:-1 [As for] our neighbors...[The people who lived] in our area were all schoolteachers. 62 00:07:19.670 --> 00:07:24.860 align:center line:-1 After the Cultural Revolution [began], a lot of teachers were driven away [from the neighborhood]. 63 00:07:24.870 --> 00:07:32.990 align:center line:-1 But at the time our family already didn’t teach at that school, so we still lived there, and weren’t greatly impacted. 64 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:39.920 align:center line:-1 But the neighbors who’d [moved there] more recently had pretty tough lives. [They] were all university staff. 65 00:07:39.930 --> 00:07:50.090 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: You had a chance to see the lives of people who were not [in the] high-level intellectual class like your parents, and realized their lifestyle was different from yours. 66 00:07:50.100 --> 00:08:00.580 align:center line:-1 Right. At that time, we had a neighbor, who was the dining hall cook [and had] four children. 67 00:08:00.590 --> 00:08:05.990 align:center line:-1 His wife was a temporary worker; I don’t know what [she did]; I don’t have much impression [about her]. 68 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:08.320 align:center line:-1 [She] was a temporary worker in the school. 69 00:08:08.330 --> 00:08:16.970 align:center line:-1 At the time [people] used grain ration tickets. [The cook and his wife] wanted to use their ticket to trade “fine grain” for “coarse grain.” 70 00:08:16.980 --> 00:08:19.430 align:center line:-1 That is, they wanted to trade tickets with our family. 71 00:08:19.440 --> 00:08:30.790 align:center line:-1 They couldn’t afford to eat “fine grain,” that is, rice and flour; they’d only eat corn and things, so they wanted to trade grain ration tickets with us. 72 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:40.270 align:center line:-1 As for our family, we ate “fine grain.” But personally, I really liked sweet potatoes, corn, and such things. 73 00:08:40.280 --> 00:08:47.430 align:center line:-1 However, my [parents] were unwilling, since [they] had experienced the era of the Great Famine; they had had enough of that stuff. 74 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:55.660 align:center line:-1 So, because of this, we were at odds. When it came time to buy sweet potatoes, I wanted to buy a lot, to bring back to eat. 75 00:08:55.670 --> 00:09:03.130 align:center line:-1 When some of the neighbors came back from rural villages, they could bring back dried sweet potatoes and things, and I thought this was great food. 76 00:09:03.140 --> 00:09:12.390 align:center line:-1 So, people’s lives were quite different. At the time, I could perceive this difference. 77 00:09:12.400 --> 00:09:15.400 align:center line:-1 Also, people’s positions in society were different. 78 00:09:15.410 --> 00:09:23.840 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: So speaking from a certain perspective, the Cultural Revolution caused you to have some benefit, right? 79 00:09:23.850 --> 00:09:28.710 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: In terms of understanding society, understanding different social classes of the people around you. 80 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:39.740 align:center line:-1 Right, I think so, because I had the perspective of an observer, on the outside, since [my family] didn’t feel much impact. 81 00:09:39.750 --> 00:09:48.370 align:center line:-1 Our family was somewhat affected, but not too much. In addition, I was young, and my family protected me. 82 00:09:48.380 --> 00:09:52.690 align:center line:-1 So, I didn’t know much about these situations. A lot of things I didn’t even know until recently. 83 00:09:52.700 --> 00:10:01.860 align:center line:-1 For example, my paternal uncle wasn’t married; before, I thought he was a model worker, really revolutionary. 84 00:10:01.870 --> 00:10:04.730 align:center line:-1 Actually, it seems like he didn’t get married because he experienced some impacts. 85 00:10:04.740 --> 00:10:08.130 align:center line:-1 During the Cultural Revolution, he was about 20 years old. 86 00:10:08.140 --> 00:10:13.750 align:center line:-1 He didn’t marry until the very end of the Cultural Revolution; in actuality, [it was because] he’d been impacted, so there was no way [he could marry]. 87 00:10:13.760 --> 00:10:21.990 align:center line:-1 He’d come to our house and play with me, and I didn’t know about these things at all. 88 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.480 align:center line:-1 I thought he was a really happy person, a really revolutionary person, but really, that’s not how it was. 89 00:10:26.490 --> 00:10:33.110 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Later, did you become interested in the Cultural Revolution? 90 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:40.780 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Although you didn’t experience much at all yourself, later did you personally feel interested in better understanding the Cultural Revolution? 91 00:10:40.790 --> 00:10:47.930 align:center line:-1 I’m very interested, since I’m interested in people. 92 00:10:47.940 --> 00:11:05.050 align:center line:-1 Now I’m a social scientist [社会科学家]; I’m interested in these things, situations [involving] people, especially situations close to me. 93 00:11:05.060 --> 00:11:11.770 align:center line:-1 Actually, I also pay a lot of attention to reading memoirs related to history. I’m really interested in that. 94 00:11:11.780 --> 00:11:14.150 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Thank you for accepting my interview. Thanks. 95 00:11:14.160 --> 00:11:15.267 align:center line:-1 OK.
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