WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.170 --> 00:00:02.990 align:center line:-1Interviewer: Thank you for accepting my interview. 2 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:09.780 align:center line:-1 First, could you please tell me the decade of your birth? You don't have to say the exact year; just "'30s," "'40s,""'50s" will do... 3 00:00:09.790 --> 00:00:21.250 align:center line:-1 I was born in the 1950s in Shanghai, and grew up there, in the southwestern part. 4 00:00:21.260 --> 00:00:33.110 align:center line:-1 It was the area where Shanghai's culture and administration is concentrated; relatively speaking, it was a fairly nice and stable area. 5 00:00:33.120 --> 00:00:47.580 align:center line:-1 After the Cultural Revolution started, the situation quickly changed. The lane where we lived was lined with Spanish-style houses; there were six houses altogether. 6 00:00:47.590 --> 00:00:59.260 align:center line:-1 [Before Liberation], six wealthy people had lived in those six houses; to put it in Cultural Revolution terms, they were all capitalists. 7 00:00:59.270 --> 00:01:07.720 align:center line:-1 After Liberation, [numbers] 1, 3, and 5 were taken over by the officials, and became officials' dormitories. 8 00:01:07.730 --> 00:01:15.190 align:center line:-1 [Numbers] 2, 4, and 6 were still occupied by capitalists. So, during the Cultural Revolution, this strange phenomenon occurred. 9 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:20.990 align:center line:-1 After the Cultural Revolution started, the capitalists in [numbers] 2, 4, and 6 began having bad luck. 10 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:25.990 align:center line:-1 [They were classified among] "landlords, rich farmers, counter-revolutionaries, bad elements, and rightists," you know. 11 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:30.940 align:center line:-1 They were impacted first. Their houses were searched to confiscate their possessions, and they were struggled against. 12 00:01:30.950 --> 00:01:33.390 align:center line:-1 [Incriminating] things were indeed discovered [in their homes]. 13 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:42.600 align:center line:-1 A kid was climbing on a fence, and he saw the old man in number 2 burying something. 14 00:01:42.610 --> 00:01:48.090 align:center line:-1 That child was about 10 years old, and didn't really understand what was going on. 15 00:01:48.100 --> 00:01:51.850 align:center line:-1 When people came to search the house, that kid just said so-and-so had been burying stuff. 16 00:01:51.860 --> 00:01:54.490 align:center line:-1 In the end, a stack of gold ingots, paper bills— 17 00:01:54.500 --> 00:01:55.490 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Really? 18 00:01:55.500 --> 00:02:00.680 align:center line:-1 Yes. Land deeds, and real estate contracts were dug up, and [the man] was struggled against. 19 00:02:00.690 --> 00:02:09.330 align:center line:-1 Six months later, that so-called capitalist head of the household died not from illness, but from the anger [stress]. 20 00:02:09.340 --> 00:02:21.070 align:center line:-1 Of course, for them it was hard to bear. However, to children like us at that time, we were just watching the action. At the time, we lived in the officials' dormitory. 21 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:24.490 align:center line:-1 Later, as the Cultural Revolution moved forward, [its development] was not right. 22 00:02:24.500 --> 00:02:30.560 align:center line:-1 The so-called "capitalist-roaders" within officialdom met with misfortune, as did intellectuals. 23 00:02:30.570 --> 00:02:36.010 align:center line:-1 The houses at [numbers] 1, 3, and 5 were searched in order for possessions to be confiscated, and those families were struggled against. 24 00:02:36.020 --> 00:02:38.400 align:center line:-1 "Big-character posters" were were also hung up. 25 00:02:38.410 --> 00:02:41.340 align:center line:-1 Among the six families, there were no "good people." 26 00:02:41.350 --> 00:02:47.080 align:center line:-1 Some were rich landlords or capitalists; others were "capitalist-roaders" or "the stinking old ninth" [intellectuals]. 27 00:02:47.090 --> 00:02:50.990 align:center line:-1 Anyway, it was these people. 28 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:55.640 align:center line:-1 I remember clearly the year the Cultural Revolution started [1966], because I was in the fifth grade. 29 00:02:55.650 --> 00:02:59.270 align:center line:-1 Since the school [I went to] used a 10-year system, [I] graduated elementary school after that [fifth grade] year. 30 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:03.180 align:center line:-1 Right after that came "suspending classes to make revolution." 31 00:03:03.190 --> 00:03:10.310 align:center line:-1 The Shanghai Municipal Party Committee was not far from my home or my school, 32 00:03:10.320 --> 00:03:19.040 align:center line:-1 so when the Committee was under attack, [when people] were throwing bricks and factions were fighting, [everyone] saw it. 33 00:03:19.050 --> 00:03:27.480 align:center line:-1 All we kids did was play. Our parents all went to cadre school. Not long after this, I started middle school. 34 00:03:27.490 --> 00:03:33.220 align:center line:-1 My older brother and sister went to Heilongjiang to join a production team. 35 00:03:33.230 --> 00:03:44.500 align:center line:-1 There was an impact, but for us regular intellectual families the impact was not that large. 36 00:03:44.510 --> 00:03:52.480 align:center line:-1 But in our environment, nearly every family had someone in it who felt some kind of impact. 37 00:03:52.490 --> 00:04:02.090 align:center line:-1 So, you can say [the Cultural Revolution] had its good and bad: every family had complaints, but after everyone was impacted, still not many people were killed. 38 00:04:02.100 --> 00:04:13.150 align:center line:-1 For example, the man at number 2 died from anger, but he was already pretty old. Of course his family was unhappy after he died from the stress. 39 00:04:13.160 --> 00:04:20.540 align:center line:-1 But in general, since everyone was in poor circumstances, we didn't differentiate ourselves [in our thinking]. 40 00:04:20.550 --> 00:04:22.800 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: [You] felt everyone was the same. 41 00:04:22.810 --> 00:04:30.010 align:center line:-1 We didn't think we were especially tragic. Because, in fact, no one [among us] had the bad luck of someone like [Chinese novelist] Lao She. 42 00:04:30.020 --> 00:04:37.620 align:center line:-1 The bureau chiefs at [numbers] 1, 3, and 5 were struggled against somewhat harshly. 43 00:04:37.630 --> 00:04:49.560 align:center line:-1 One was the marine bureau chief; one was the light industry bureau chief; I forget the other one. They were struggled against quite fiercely. 44 00:04:49.570 --> 00:04:57.780 align:center line:-1 But everyone was struggled against; that's how it was. After being struggled against, they went to May 7 cadre school, and were released after several years. 45 00:04:57.790 --> 00:05:06.690 align:center line:-1 Altogether, my feeling is that [the Cultural Revolution] hurt many people, but for regular people, the feeling was not that deep. 46 00:05:06.700 --> 00:05:14.900 align:center line:-1 Personally speaking, it was a waste of several years; I didn't really go to middle school, and fifth grade didn’t really count. 47 00:05:14.910 --> 00:05:20.490 align:center line:-1 And right after that I went to "do field study on farms and in factories." Then, I was assigned to work. 48 00:05:20.500 --> 00:05:27.430 align:center line:-1 What left the deepest impression on me from the Cultural Revolution was something with which I can make an important comparison to my children's generation. 49 00:05:27.440 --> 00:05:32.990 align:center line:-1 During the Cultural Revolution, because of “up to the mountains and down to the countryside," though I didn't join a production team, 50 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:36.990 align:center line:-1 I studied farm work for over six months. I ate, lived and worked side-by-side with the peasants. 51 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:38.240 align:center line:-1 I also experienced famine. 52 00:05:38.250 --> 00:05:42.010 align:center line:-1 I know what it's like not having enough to eat, not having filling foods like meat and oil. 53 00:05:42.020 --> 00:05:52.310 align:center line:-1 I've been a worker and an apprentice. I saved my pennies to work on semiconductors and make model planes. 54 00:05:52.320 --> 00:05:59.930 align:center line:-1 I know what it's like to go through hardships. But my son's generation can't grasp any of this. 55 00:05:59.940 --> 00:06:07.210 align:center line:-1 I think the Cultural Revolution's [greatest influence on people my age] wasn't from attacks or factional fighting. 56 00:06:07.220 --> 00:06:15.850 align:center line:-1 Rather, its greatest influence on me was that I didn't have a job; of the three kids in my family, the other two went "up to the mountains and down to the countryside," to a rural village. 57 00:06:15.860 --> 00:06:20.580 align:center line:-1 I went to a rural village, too, but the work I was assigned to was in a factory in Shanghai. 58 00:06:20.590 --> 00:06:29.070 align:center line:-1 I have the deepest impression from this practical experience in society. It had the greatest influence on my life. 59 00:06:29.080 --> 00:06:33.060 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Is your meaning that its influence on you, personally, was more positive? 60 00:06:33.070 --> 00:06:40.370 align:center line:-1 Yes, it was more positive. It help me [understand] the difficulties in life, and gave me ambition. 61 00:06:40.380 --> 00:06:45.990 align:center line:-1 For example, we make money, but we are not like today's kids. 62 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:55.850 align:center line:-1 My son's generation doesn't understand how to endure difficulty, doesn't understand that labor is important. 63 00:06:55.860 --> 00:07:03.200 align:center line:-1 Among that generation, people just want to live well without doing any work. [They] have money to spend. 64 00:07:03.210 --> 00:07:07.960 align:center line:-1 When I went abroad in the 1980s, it was when China was most poor. 65 00:07:07.970 --> 00:07:16.690 align:center line:-1 Chinese people didn't get any respect in the west. The police called me "Chinaman." 66 00:07:16.700 --> 00:07:21.890 align:center line:-1 I had gone abroad as a visiting scholar. Since Chinese people were poor, there were many who "hopped a plane." 67 00:07:21.900 --> 00:07:27.920 align:center line:-1 People from Hong Kong said to "hop a plane" meant to arrive in another country as an illegal immigrant; 68 00:07:27.930 --> 00:07:36.690 align:center line:-1 to disappear [消失] and work illegally. You might get off the plane and never been seen again. Chinese people were like that at the time. 69 00:07:36.700 --> 00:07:42.080 align:center line:-1 Why? It was to escape from poverty; at that time, the salaries in western societies were 10 or more times greater [than salaries in China]. 70 00:07:42.090 --> 00:07:48.220 align:center line:-1 Our salaries were 10 times lower than theirs. How could you get along? Of course life was tough. 71 00:07:48.230 --> 00:07:58.190 align:center line:-1 So, though people of my generation experienced great hardship for years, I think [this experience] helped our lives a lot later on -- and we also did our own hard work. 72 00:07:58.200 --> 00:08:05.180 align:center line:-1 After working hard and succeeding, you couldn't [live] like the prodigal son or a rich playboy. 73 00:08:05.190 --> 00:08:20.620 align:center line:-1 Even if you were one of those who had relatively good qualifications during the Cultural Revolution, such as Hu Shuli or Miao Ning, you wouldn't [behave] like some people today, 74 00:08:20.630 --> 00:08:30.710 align:center line:-1 like in Guo Jingming's Tiny Times novels, which describe an extravagant lifestyle, which is totally self-involved, and really meaningless. 75 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:35.280 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Under what circumstances have you spoken about the Cultural Revolution with your son? 76 00:08:35.290 --> 00:08:40.410 align:center line:-1 They usually don't like to hear about this. I rarely get an opportunity to talk about it. 77 00:08:40.420 --> 00:08:44.290 align:center line:-1 My son is actually not bad, since he’s an engineering student who knows about working hard to make money. 78 00:08:44.300 --> 00:08:47.990 align:center line:-1 But still, most people in their generation don't like to listen to this. 79 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:49.990 align:center line:-1 It's just like us [when we were young]. 80 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:53.600 align:center line:-1 It was so annoying to hear how the past was miserable, and we hated being made to eat a poor meal to recall past bitterness. 81 00:08:53.610 --> 00:09:00.020 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: So when you talk about the Cultural Revolution, it's from the perspective of how our generation went through such hardships? 82 00:09:00.030 --> 00:09:07.150 align:center line:-1 Actually, I don't speak too much about painful things. I want them to have a relatively correct outlook on life. 83 00:09:07.160 --> 00:09:14.480 align:center line:-1 My son has been quite successful, receiving a Ph.D. and becoming a university professor in England. 84 00:09:14.490 --> 00:09:22.040 align:center line:-1 He's gotten married and has children; he's bought a house in England -- material life is pretty good! 85 00:09:22.050 --> 00:09:38.580 align:center line:-1 But he can't experience our life at the time, and it would be hard for him to deeply experience some of the valuable things in life, 86 00:09:38.590 --> 00:09:41.960 align:center line:-1 including going to the countryside, or experiencing hardship or hunger. 87 00:09:41.970 --> 00:09:51.270 align:center line:-1 Once you experienced this, you had a different view of how valuable certain things are. [Today's young people] are too fortune. 88 00:09:51.280 --> 00:09:55.780 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: So from this point of view, do you affirm the value of your experience during the Cultural Revolution? 89 00:09:55.790 --> 00:10:03.810 align:center line:-1 I'm not affirming the experience. People of our age didn't get overly involved. I became a Little Red Guard and a Red Guard. 90 00:10:03.820 --> 00:10:06.770 align:center line:-1 That time during which I was a Little Red Guard was a bit of a mess. 91 00:10:06.780 --> 00:10:09.690 align:center line:-1 Later, after I became a Red Guard, [things] proceeded on a so-called normal track. 92 00:10:09.700 --> 00:10:14.990 align:center line:-1 At that time, the area of Shanghai I was in was [controlled by] the Gang of Four; this was an advantage, [because] there was no more factional fighting. 93 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:25.870 align:center line:-1 After the Gang of Four defeated a faction in a Shanghai diesel engine factory, no one could compete with them. 94 00:10:25.880 --> 00:10:34.360 align:center line:-1 When [Shanghai] was controlled by a faction, although they were extremely leftist, relatively speaking, [that period] was pretty stable, compared to the rest of China. 95 00:10:34.370 --> 00:10:42.020 align:center line:-1 Other places still had factional fighting, still had nothing to eat. Although Shanghai had rationing, material goods were in full supply. 96 00:10:42.030 --> 00:10:44.500 align:center line:-1 So, with ration tickets, you could get anything. 97 00:10:44.510 --> 00:10:54.530 align:center line:-1 It was relatively stable. My parents were never around, having gone to May 7 cadre school. My older brother and sister went to the Northeast. 98 00:10:54.540 --> 00:11:05.070 align:center line:-1 I went to work in a factory. The years went by quickly, but I didn't think it was difficult. I saved money, made model planes, and was quite happy. 99 00:11:05.080 --> 00:11:11.060 align:center line:-1 I have a good ability to work with my hands. I think that in today's [educational environment], children's ability to work with their hands is pretty poor. 100 00:11:11.070 --> 00:11:18.650 align:center line:-1 Back then, we could do everything ourselves. In general, [our] lifestyle wasn't really affected. 101 00:11:18.660 --> 00:11:36.290 align:center line:-1 Although a lot of study time was wasted, we received a lot of benefits, [things] that helped our entire lives, even if they were fun or enjoyable. 102 00:11:36.300 --> 00:11:43.940 align:center line:-1 But my parents' generation was more miserable, since they experienced even more hardships. 103 00:11:43.950 --> 00:11:47.250 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Thank you. 104 00:11:47.260 --> 00:11:51.190 align:center line:-1 That's what kind of generation it was – based on my age, that's how I feel about it. 105 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:53.000 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Thank you for accepting my interview. 106 00:11:53.010 --> 00:11:54.200 align:center line:-1 Thanks.
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