"There had already been a period of time where I was confused, thinking my father was dead."

Interviewer: Hello! Thank you for accepting my interview. Could you please tell me the decade in which you were born, such as "'50s," "'60s"...

I was born in the early '60s, and lived in Beijing.

Interviewer: I was about to ask you about where you lived from 1966 to 1976. So it was in Beijing?

Beijing.

Interviewer: Having been born in that decade, you probably have a lot of memories [about the Cultural Revolution].

Interviewer: If I give you about 10 minutes, what memories would you most want to share? You don't need to organize your language or plan too much.

Interviewer: In the first 10 minutes of the interview, what would you most want us to know about? Maybe some thoughts or recollections? You may speak freely.

Sure. I'll just speak off the top of my head. When the Cultural Revolution started, I was in kindergarten. Usually my mom picked me up after school.

One day, an older cousin came to get me instead. He said my mom couldn't come, because our house was being searched in order to confiscate our possessions.

So, my cousin took me to stay at the hospital [where my mom worked]. I stayed one night, and went home the next day, to stay with neighbors.

When I walked into the courtyard, I saw that all sorts of items had been smashed on the ground.

A pack of poker cards been ripped to shreds, and some porcelain figurines had been smashed.

Interviewer: Oh, smashed up.

At about four o'clock in the morning, the Red Guards came.

I cowered in the neighbors' house and watched from the window. The Red Guards were burning papers. I didn't really understand what they were up to.

The next day, like a refugee, I went back to stay at my mom's hospital. I stayed there for three or four months.

The Red Guards [had] searched my maternal uncle and aunt's house [first], and since we lived together with them, they did our house as well.

Interviewer: Oh, so actually, they were searching your uncle's house to confiscate possessions.

Right. At that time, a lot of people lived together as one big family. Three or four months later, [my uncle's family] were released and sent back.

When they got back, I saw them and saw that my aunt's head had been shaved, and my maternal grandmother's arm was broken; it was wrapped in a bandage.

Interviewer: Someone beat her?

I think maybe she had been pushed down. Maybe they wouldn't hit an old woman, but perhaps since she was a landlady,

...they pushed her down, caused her to take a tumble, and that's how she broke her arm. That's my impression.

Interviewer: Were you scared at that time?

I was a little scared, but not terribly so. This was the early stage of the Cultural Revolution.

—

Oh, there was another thing I remember really well. I have an older cousin who was studying at a physical education university.

Where she was studying was not far from Tsinghua [University] and Peking University.

One morning, she came rushing back home, saying that the night before guns had been fired.

I think a "work group" had gone in and established itself in the universities, and students had picked up guns, and then a fight had started, maybe.

It seemed like it had been that kind of situation. These are some Cultural Revolution memories.

Others are just things like, we didn't go to school—I'm sure that's the same [as everyone else].

When I went to elementary school, we'd often run around on the desks; I don't know if any movies have shown this.

Interviewer: On the desks?

Yes, the kids would rush in the door, jump up on the desks, run across, and jump out the window. This happened a lot. When we were having classes, some kids would just run out.

Interviewer: They'd run out in the middle of class?

Right. And during class breaks, we'd play "horseback wars"—it was very satisfying.

Interviewer: Satisfying, huh?

Do you know what I mean by "horseback wars"?

Interviewer: Is it when one person rides on another person's back?

—

I think it was around the first time Deng Xiaoping came onstage [politically]. Once again

—

Interviewer: Oh, and then came [the] Huang Shuai [Incident].

Right, Huang Shuai came along, and then we stopped going to school again. Once again, we started playing; in general, we weren't in school.

In the mornings, we'd go to Shichahai to ice skate. In the mornings, the doors at Shichahai wouldn't be open, but there was a hole in the wire fence, so we'd squeeze through.

Interviewer: Did you play for 10 years?

Up until my sophomore or junior year of high school, when I joined the April Fifth Movement and things like that.

Interviewer: So 1976, '75?

My paternal grandfather lived with us. He had been an executive with the bank run by [senior army general] Zhang Xueliang's family.

When I was little, I didn't know why, but our family often had people coming by to do "external investigations."

Interviewer: Who were they investigating?

I don't know who. They'd just always ask my grandfather about things that had happened in the past, like "When did so-and-so do such-and-such?"

I guess it was about who had fought against the Japanese, and who hadn't.

I suppose it was that during the Cultural Revolution, they were giving a lot of people a hard time. People would say, "You'd better not persecute me. I'm in the Party, I fought the Japanese..."

Interviewer: They'd look for people to back it up?

Right, they were looking for people to confirm it. I think that must've been what all this was. People often came [for this]—

There's something else that I think kids today would never be able to understand.

During the civil war, my maternal grandfather was taken along when the Kuomintang [Nationalists] went to accept the Japanese surrender.

Because he was from Northeast China, he was taken along. I don't know what position he held at the time.

But because of this, he was labeled a historical counterrevolutionary.

So, every time a holiday came, my grandfather was made to go to the neighborhood committee [offices].

He would have to stay there until 10 o'clock at night, and then he could go home. They were afraid he'd make some trouble.

Interviewer: He was kept under surveillance?

Right, for fear he'd cause trouble. As soon as Labor Day or National Day came along,

...at eight o'clock in the morning, he'd act like everything was normal, say, "I'm leaving," take some food, and go.

Interviewer: And then he'd stay [at the committee] all day?

The whole day. He'd come back at 10 o'clock at night.

Interviewer: This was to keep people under supervision.

Probably they would study

together. I'm not sure of the exact circumstances. They'd just stay at the neighborhood committee for the day.

Also, at that time there were many struggle meetings.

Whenever there was a struggle meeting, my maternal grandfather was told to attend, but actually he never had to get on stage.

The struggle meetings at that time were actually kind of funny. When there was a struggle meeting, anyone might be struggled against; it wasn't exclusively "capitalist-roaders."

For example, run-of-the-mill hoodlums and others were struggled against, too. And people like my grandfather, who belonged to the "five black categories" had to go as well.

There was actually reserved seating for the "five black categories." We elementary school and junior high students sat off to one side.

The people on the stage were writing criticism reports. Some kids would say to me, "How come your grandfather is here? He is sitting over there."

Interviewer: What would you say [to them]?

Every time there was a [struggle] meeting, I'd be so embarrassed.

Interviewer: So, to be honest, with the other kids pointing this out, did you feel your grandfather was causing you to lose face, or did you feel sympathetic toward him?

It was a little of both. Anyway, I didn't think my grandfather was a bad person; I was certain he was a good person.

Our relationship was really good. Those other kids had a good relationship with him, too.

Them saying "How can your grandfather be over there, too?" showed that they had never thought of him as a bad guy.

During the Cultural Revolution, I didn't see my mother and father for years.

Interviewer: Where were they?

We didn't see each other for seven or eight years, from about 1967 to 1974.

Interviewer: Did they go "down to the countryside"?

No. My father was in Sichuan, [one of the] Third Front provinces.

But before the Cultural Revolution, he'd come back once a year to visit our family; he had family leave.

When the Cultural Revolution began, because of suspicions of spying, he couldn't come back, but had to stay there. Sometimes we'd get a letter or two.

Hearing my mother read his letters aloud was really interesting: "Today I put the pigs out to graze"; "I went up the mountain to cut bamboo";

"Every day I cut this much bamboo," etc. It was funny.

Interviewer: So they were separated all that time?

[Yes], for seven or eight years. There was also a considerable amount of time when we didn't get any letters.

There had already been a period of time where I was confused, thinking my father was dead.

—

Probably after he hadn't come back for three or four years, since I was small, I just got mixed up.

—

Interviewer: It was just your own confusion?

I just guessed wrong. In fact, it wasn't like that at all. Because my mother did surgery, she was very tired, and ended up having an accident.

After the accident, she suffered from shock. What I mean by her having a breakdown was just that she couldn't sleep at night, so she took sleeping pills.

Interviewer: But since your father was never around, and you didn't know the reason [she was sick], you started coming up with explanations.

Right. I saw my mother crying all the time—she was mentally unwell. I thought, is my dad dead? At that time, I didn't really know.

Interviewer: Since you hadn't been with your father for a long time, how was your relationship with him?

It was really good. I longed for him to come home.

Another thing I remember well from the Cultural Revolution is that there was nothing to eat, so I was always craving food.

If there was a little something to eat, we were so happy. If we got a little preserved tofu or pickled vegetables, it made our day.

If we [kids] were sent to get sesame paste or sesame oil—

Interviewer: You'd sneak a bite.

We'd sneak a little taste. If we got some dried shrimp, that was awesome.

One time, my aunt and uncle had some boiled cabbage with dried shrimp.

Interviewer: Oh, that's tasty.

And since our two families lived around the same courtyard, I could smell it cooking. It made my mouth water, even though there was no meat in it, just cabbage and dried shrimp!

My maternal grandfather was from Northeast China, and didn't really know how to cook. So, when winter came, he was always boiling cabbage.

Interviewer: When did your grandfather pass away?

At the end of 1976.

Interviewer: The same year the Cultural Revolution ended.

[His death] had to do with the [Great Tangshan] earthquake.

Interviewer: July 28, 1976.

July 1976. After the earthquake, we lived in the courtyard.

They made my grandfather work fixing houses—the "five black categories" were made to work as laborers. [My grandfather] was over 80.

Interviewer: How do you think your grandfather felt about being put under supervision, and all the rest?

He was very optimistic. He was really amazing.

Interviewer: That couldn't have been easy.

He closely resembled a guy in that recent movie about Zhang Xueliang, bald with a thick mustache.

—

He had a great attitude. The only time I heard him say anything bad was toward the end of 1976.

At that time, a lot of people had already come to detest the Gang of Four. It was only then that he started to say negative things.

But back at the beginning of the Cultural Revolution, he had been very earnest, copying out

and things like that when he had spare time.

Interviewer: Thank you for accepting my interview.

Bye.