WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:04.220 align:center line:-1Interviewer: Thank you for accepting my interview. 2 00:00:04.230 --> 00:00:12.270 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: First, would you please tell me when you were born? You don’t need to say the exact year; just the decade will do, such as “’40s,” “’50s”… 3 00:00:12.280 --> 00:00:15.790 align:center line:-1 I was born in the 1950s. 4 00:00:15.800 --> 00:00:23.390 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Where did you live in China from 1966 to 1976? 5 00:00:23.400 --> 00:00:30.190 align:center line:-1 Beijing is my hometown. However, I was seldom in Beijing during that decade. 6 00:00:30.200 --> 00:00:38.980 align:center line:-1 I stayed in Hunan for several years, in Hebei for several years, and in Inner Mongolia for more than a year. 7 00:00:38.990 --> 00:00:40.990 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Plentiful experiences. 8 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:47.690 align:center line:-1 Right. The longest stay probably was in Hunan, as a worker. 9 00:00:47.700 --> 00:00:56.070 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: If I asked you to talk about your memories of that decade, you would probably be able to speak for quite a while. 10 00:00:56.080 --> 00:01:06.630 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: But if I limit you to about 10 minutes—in other words, during the first 10 minutes of the interview—what memories and feelings do you most want to share with us? 11 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:12.440 align:center line:-1 The earliest stage of the Cultural Revolution left the deepest impression on me. 12 00:01:12.450 --> 00:01:21.590 align:center line:-1 When the Cultural Revolution began in 1966, I was in the second year of junior high school. That is, I was not yet 15 years old. 13 00:01:21.600 --> 00:01:29.810 align:center line:-1 However, because of the Cultural Revolution, all of a sudden I matured—or was forced to mature. 14 00:01:29.820 --> 00:01:38.730 align:center line:-1 Therefore, the first one or two years left me with the deepest impression. 15 00:01:38.740 --> 00:01:47.030 align:center line:-1 The other stages of life had gone along as usual, but that period [of one or two years] was extremely eventful. 16 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:55.400 align:center line:-1 When the Cultural Revolution started, [people] responded to Chairman Mao's call to rebel. 17 00:01:55.410 --> 00:02:04.810 align:center line:-1 I don't know why I became part of the initial rebel faction; I was young, only a seventh grader. 18 00:02:04.820 --> 00:02:13.720 align:center line:-1 But at that time, the school set up a Cultural Revolution Committee. 19 00:02:13.730 --> 00:02:17.490 align:center line:-1 I participated in the Cultural Revolution Committee as the representative of the seventh grade. 20 00:02:17.500 --> 00:02:27.010 align:center line:-1 The Committee was organized by a “work group." Later on it was seen as a conservative faction, though [in the beginning] it was actually a rebel faction. 21 00:02:27.020 --> 00:02:33.950 align:center line:-1 So I got involved in politics at an early age—even I don’t know why. 22 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:39.560 align:center line:-1 Of course, because of our [young] age, due to many reasons, we couldn’t genuinely get into politics. 23 00:02:39.570 --> 00:02:45.290 align:center line:-1 Then later, our school was where a lot happened during the Cultural Revolution. 24 00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:49.390 align:center line:-1 As time went on, a lot of messy, complicated things transpired there. 25 00:02:49.400 --> 00:03:06.330 align:center line:-1 Anyway, though I was only about 15 years old, I had already started to think wow, politics is a really complex thing, even an insidious thing. 26 00:03:06.340 --> 00:03:09.490 align:center line:-1 I had this feeling at the time. 27 00:03:09.500 --> 00:03:20.040 align:center line:-1 Maybe that was why, relatively early, I started to see the Cultural Revolution more clearly, though I cannot say I saw through it completely. 28 00:03:20.050 --> 00:03:24.050 align:center line:-1 Actually, some of the Old Red Guards in Beijing at that time also [felt the way I did.] 29 00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:29.990 align:center line:-1 We were totally indifferent to, say, the Gang of Four or what at that time was called the Central Cultural Revolution Small Group. 30 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:35.140 align:center line:-1 I guess you could say this was very non-mainstream; [our] thinking in particular was very non-mainstream. 31 00:03:35.150 --> 00:03:40.990 align:center line:-1 However, since at that time, my surrounding environment, and maybe the people around me-- 32 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:43.570 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: What kind of [surrounding] environment? 33 00:03:43.580 --> 00:03:50.680 align:center line:-1 My family [lived] in a military compound. My father was a soldier, an army cadre. 34 00:03:50.690 --> 00:03:54.230 align:center line:-1 Most of the people I hung out with were the same. 35 00:03:54.240 --> 00:04:04.990 align:center line:-1 What we all had in common was that we were all Old Red Guards, and that after October 1966 we despised the Central Cultural Revolution Small Group. 36 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:14.100 align:center line:-1 Although we did not associate this with the entire Cultural Revolution or with Mao, you can’t logically say they were totally unrelated. 37 00:04:14.110 --> 00:04:21.460 align:center line:-1 If you’re someone who likes to think, you’d [naturally] wonder, what is the Cultural Revolution, after all? 38 00:04:21.470 --> 00:04:38.690 align:center line:-1 So, actually [people] like some of my friends and I began having a very, very non-mainstream view of the Cultural Revolution at the end of 1966 and into 1967 and 1968. 39 00:04:38.700 --> 00:04:44.020 align:center line:-1 Our view was far different from the average person’s viewpoint at the time—that is, far [different from] the propaganda the newspapers printed. 40 00:04:44.030 --> 00:04:50.190 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Is it because you got involved very early on, and so you were able to understand things clearly very early on? 41 00:04:50.200 --> 00:04:52.690 align:center line:-1 Right, because I got involved early. I don't really want to talk about those specific things. 42 00:04:52.700 --> 00:05:03.990 align:center line:-1 [Early in the Cultural Revolution] it was not so much about the broad political environment—each small political environment developed independently. 43 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:06.960 align:center line:-1 For example, [our school] was like a political laboratory. 44 00:05:06.970 --> 00:05:10.630 align:center line:-1 In each independently-developing environment, many things were the same. 45 00:05:10.640 --> 00:05:16.700 align:center line:-1 Each had a personality cult, autocratic dictatorship, and factional struggle. 46 00:05:16.710 --> 00:05:19.830 align:center line:-1 Actually, I saw a lot of things like this happening. 47 00:05:19.840 --> 00:05:28.990 align:center line:-1 I had been a junior leader in the Red Guards. Later [my position] went down as our faction fell; I became an ordinary person. 48 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:36.810 align:center line:-1 At the time I thought, oh, this is what politics is all about. So, very early on, I started becoming a "bystander." 49 00:05:36.820 --> 00:05:43.970 align:center line:-1 Around September 1966, the “[great] networking” started and continued even when it was supposed to be banned. 50 00:05:43.980 --> 00:05:48.590 align:center line:-1 I traveled the whole country, to between 10 and 20 provinces in one year. 51 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:57.990 align:center line:-1 Although basically it was just for fun, compared to the average person, my views of society were quite different. 52 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:11.490 align:center line:-1 However, because we could see the cruelty of politics, at the time we really knew how to protect ourselves, and knew what we could or could not say, depending on who we were with. 53 00:06:11.500 --> 00:06:29.120 align:center line:-1 Actually, we talked imprudently among ourselves. I remember we kids talked about the appearances of our leaders. One of my friends said, “Lin Biao looks like a rat.” 54 00:06:29.130 --> 00:06:36.900 align:center line:-1 We’d smack him and say, “You’re a reactionary!” We were just joking and having fun—there was nothing more to it than that. 55 00:06:36.910 --> 00:06:44.380 align:center line:-1 Later on, I joined a production team, and served as both a solider and a worker. 56 00:06:44.390 --> 00:06:59.990 align:center line:-1 I personally felt that during this time, I was able to retain my own ideas and viewpoints to a great degree; of course, you couldn’t go beyond that era. 57 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:11.780 align:center line:-1 Anyway, it was interesting. There were dozens of people who joined the production team at the same site I did. 58 00:07:11.790 --> 00:07:25.390 align:center line:-1 I remember around 1968 or 1969, our head would assemble us every morning to proclaim our plans for the day; in the evening, we’d give an update on our activities. 59 00:07:25.400 --> 00:07:38.990 align:center line:-1 At the time, this thinking could be seen as rather orthodox. But later, on the day Mao passed away [September 9, 1976], [our head] was in Hangzhou, Zhejiang Province. 60 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:53.230 align:center line:-1 When he heard the news broadcast, he was so happy he rolled around on the grass. So in fact, during that decade, many people's thinking changed a lot. 61 00:07:53.240 --> 00:08:03.990 align:center line:-1 To sum up, under normal circumstances, during that decade, I would have gone to high school and university in Beijing. 62 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:10.250 align:center line:-1 Instead, I changed my registered residence changed three or four times [as I moved]. 63 00:08:10.260 --> 00:08:16.290 align:center line:-1 I went out from Beijing and made a big circle before coming back. As for occupation, I was a worker, a peasant [farmer], and a soldier. 64 00:08:16.300 --> 00:08:18.000 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Worker-peasant-soldier: you experienced all three. 65 00:08:18.010 --> 00:08:20.460 align:center line:-1 Right, and had many types of experiences. 66 00:08:20.470 --> 00:08:28.610 align:center line:-1 However, altogether, gains were definitely greater than losses. 67 00:08:28.620 --> 00:08:31.790 align:center line:-1 Personally, I think it was good. 68 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:40.290 align:center line:-1 Another thing is that, altogether, the way I passed those days was...I can’t quite say it was joyful, but it was at least pleasant. 69 00:08:40.300 --> 00:08:46.350 align:center line:-1 Because at that time, you had both a lack of freedom and an abundance of freedom. 70 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:53.290 align:center line:-1 Especially in the first two years of the Cultural Revolution: we didn’t have to go to school; we didn’t have to think too much about anything. 71 00:08:53.300 --> 00:09:01.990 align:center line:-1 Of course, I read a lot of books, did a lot of foolish things, and actually had a great time. 72 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:08.740 align:center line:-1 Later on, after joining a production team and being a soldier and then a worker, [I] was not as free anymore. 73 00:09:08.750 --> 00:09:13.190 align:center line:-1 Sometimes work was really tough, especially during the time in the rural village. 74 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:24.990 align:center line:-1 However, I didn’t have the kinds of problems the average young person faces [now], such as making choices and having conflicts with parents or society. 75 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:29.990 align:center line:-1 There was none of that. Generally, I could decide for myself what I wanted to do. 76 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:36.850 align:center line:-1 So, that was a tragic era. 77 00:09:36.860 --> 00:09:58.090 align:center line:-1 However, for people my age, if you were in a relatively friendly environment, what you experienced would not be terribly tragic in itself, actually. 78 00:09:58.100 --> 00:10:03.690 align:center line:-1 Of course, it also depended on a person's social status. For those a bit older than I was, things were more serious. 79 00:10:03.700 --> 00:10:14.290 align:center line:-1 Therefore, today a lot of people miss the Cultural Revolution, or have some other ways of thinking about it. I think this is related to [one’s social status and environment]. 80 00:10:14.300 --> 00:10:18.880 align:center line:-1 Those days were actually quite interesting. 81 00:10:18.890 --> 00:10:22.190 align:center line:-1 We just published a book about joining the production team. 82 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:27.580 align:center line:-1 I wrote a piece of more than 10,000 words. 83 00:10:27.590 --> 00:10:36.580 align:center line:-1 I wrote about the feeling at the time. There was a really bitter side, but also a really happy, cheerful, or novel side. 84 00:10:36.590 --> 00:10:45.990 align:center line:-1 So, those 10 years must have been very, very different for each individual. 85 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:49.990 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Very good. You spoke very well. Thank you for accepting my interview. 86 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:51.117 align:center line:-1 You’re welcome.
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