WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.650 --> 00:00:03.690 align:center line:-1Interviewer: Hello! Thank you for accepting my interview. 2 00:00:03.690 --> 00:00:09.850 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Would you please tell me when you were born? You can just say the decade if you like, such as “1950s,” “1960s,” etc. 3 00:00:09.850 --> 00:00:12.700 align:center line:-1 1950’s. 4 00:00:12.700 --> 00:00:20.230 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Between 1966 and 1976, where did you live in China? 5 00:00:20.230 --> 00:00:23.480 align:center line:-1 Beijing, [then] Heilongjiang, [then] Beijing. 6 00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:30.100 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Since you were born in the 1950’s, you probably have many memories of the Cultural Revolution. 7 00:00:30.100 --> 00:00:33.360 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: You might be able to talk about it for days on end. 8 00:00:33.360 --> 00:00:39.020 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: But if I only give you about ten minutes to speak 9 00:00:39.020 --> 00:00:44.480 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: -in other words, in the first ten minutes of the interview -- what would you most want to share with us? 10 00:00:44.480 --> 00:00:52.680 align:center line:-1 I did not prepare, so it’s hard to focus on it immediately. 11 00:00:52.680 --> 00:01:07.710 align:center line:-1 However, I think the experience was different for every individual, maybe due to family background and class in China. 12 00:01:07.710 --> 00:01:17.300 align:center line:-1 My parents were university teachers, so I grew up in a college campus. 13 00:01:17.300 --> 00:01:23.330 align:center line:-1 The Cultural Revolution occurred first in universities. 14 00:01:23.330 --> 00:01:30.050 align:center line:-1 When it began, I had just graduated from elementary school. 15 00:01:30.050 --> 00:01:38.800 align:center line:-1 I thought this was especially interesting: I remember August 18 [1966], Mao Zedong's Reception of the Red Guards at Tiananmen Square. 16 00:01:38.800 --> 00:01:53.000 align:center line:-1 There was a ceremony at our university to relay the happenings of the reception at Tiananmen. 17 00:01:53.000 --> 00:02:00.630 align:center line:-1 Everyone cheered. At that time, we didn’t go to school; this was really something. 18 00:02:00.630 --> 00:02:11.200 align:center line:-1 Prior to that, I was a good student, and had a very good relationship with our homeroom teacher. 19 00:02:11.200 --> 00:02:13.840 align:center line:-1 It wasn’t just me; my family also had a good relationship with her. 20 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:28.000 align:center line:-1 Because our elementary school was beside the university campus, almost all of the students were the children of university employees. 21 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:38.190 align:center line:-1 The teacher liked us very much, because of our classwork, our clothes, 22 00:02:38.190 --> 00:02:45.970 align:center line:-1 and our classroom discipline--we were more teachable than those classes made up of kids from different backgrounds. 23 00:02:45.970 --> 00:02:50.830 align:center line:-1 Therefore, the relationship between our teacher and all the parents was very good. 24 00:02:50.830 --> 00:02:58.350 align:center line:-1 I remember that before the Cultural Revolution, she often did home visits. 25 00:02:58.350 --> 00:03:05.860 align:center line:-1 However, because of the influence of the Cultural Revolution, we began to put up “big-character posters” concerning our teacher. 26 00:03:05.860 --> 00:03:20.310 align:center line:-1 I was about 10 years old at that time. I took the lead, and we four children—of course, 27 00:03:20.310 --> 00:03:27.470 align:center line:-1 we were just parroting others—we criticized the teacher for Revisionism, or something like that. 28 00:03:27.470 --> 00:03:42.000 align:center line:-1 I remember the scene so clearly: I drafted the poster, and others copied it down. 29 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:51.000 align:center line:-1 Just as we had put it on the wall of the classroom, Teacher Zhang—who has passed away now—suddenly came in. 30 00:03:51.000 --> 00:04:02.350 align:center line:-1 We got so scared, we hid behind the door, watching the teacher read the poster. 31 00:04:02.350 --> 00:04:12.000 align:center line:-1 We were particularly afraid: such a good teacher, and we wrote so many awful things! 32 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:17.520 align:center line:-1 Eventually, the teacher finished reading, but did not say a word, just turned around and went out. 33 00:04:17.520 --> 00:04:22.440 align:center line:-1 The four of us looked at each other, not knowing what we had gotten ourselves into. 34 00:04:22.440 --> 00:04:27.800 align:center line:-1 Our teacher had a so-called "problematic history." 35 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:34.500 align:center line:-1 There was something in that teacher’s past, but even now I do not know what the problem was. 36 00:04:34.500 --> 00:04:49.000 align:center line:-1 I remember the teacher was more than 40 years old, and single. She may have had a tough life; I do not know the exact situation. 37 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:51.000 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Was this a male teacher, or a female teacher? 38 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:57.750 align:center line:-1 A female teacher. In general, there were few male homeroom teachers in elementary school. 39 00:04:57.750 --> 00:05:07.380 align:center line:-1 So then, she walked away very seriously. The four of us looked at each other; we were really nervous. 40 00:05:07.380 --> 00:05:15.700 align:center line:-1 It was like before the Cultural Revolution, when we’d get into trouble, breaking people’s windows and such–we were really anxious. 41 00:05:15.700 --> 00:05:21.200 align:center line:-1 Later, the teacher was actually brought in front of the whole school to be struggled against. 42 00:05:21.200 --> 00:05:25.000 align:center line:-1 I remember very clearly, the struggle meeting was held on the sports field. 43 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:33.400 align:center line:-1 Bricks were stacked up, and that teacher was made to stand on the stacks, along with the principal. 44 00:05:33.400 --> 00:05:46.300 align:center line:-1 Suddenly, our teacher jumped down from her brick stack, went over to the principal's brick stack, 45 00:05:46.300 --> 00:05:50.500 align:center line:-1 grabbed the principal's collar, and slapped the principal across the face. 46 00:05:50.500 --> 00:05:54.220 align:center line:-1 We were all just teenagers; we did not know what was going on. 47 00:05:54.220 --> 00:06:01.200 align:center line:-1 We just thought it was scary; we felt really nervous. Then of course, some other people pushed her away. 48 00:06:01.200 --> 00:06:05.980 align:center line:-1 Later, teachers probably were among those who were persecuted the most in the school. 49 00:06:05.980 --> 00:06:14.300 align:center line:-1 I remember she was living in the school. There was a house on our campus that looked like a temple. 50 00:06:14.300 --> 00:06:19.120 align:center line:-1 This teacher lived there with her mother and nephew, because she was not married. 51 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:28.550 align:center line:-1 With my own eyes, I saw some students throw lizards onto the rack of their pancake maker. 52 00:06:28.550 --> 00:06:37.800 align:center line:-1 The rack was blazing hot, so the lizards burned to death after being thrown on it. 53 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:44.500 align:center line:-1 Of course, I did not do such a despicable thing. All I did was write a “big-character poster” about her. 54 00:06:44.500 --> 00:06:49.200 align:center line:-1 Later, I came back from going “up to the mountains and down to the countryside” and went to see our teacher. 55 00:06:49.200 --> 00:06:57.500 align:center line:-1 I did not try to tell her the guilt I felt at that time. It was a feeling that really gnawed at me. 56 00:06:57.500 --> 00:07:05.150 align:center line:-1 Later on, I think she continued teaching. She has since passed away. 57 00:07:05.150 --> 00:07:18.500 align:center line:-1 This was a heavy emotional burden of mine related to the Cultural Revolution, but I’ve never had a way to express it. 58 00:07:18.500 --> 00:07:22.120 align:center line:-1 Of course, it wasn’t that serious – just a “big-character poster.” 59 00:07:22.120 --> 00:07:28.830 align:center line:-1 But later, we understood: another teacher, a so-called rebellious young female teacher, had incited us. 60 00:07:28.830 --> 00:07:39.500 align:center line:-1 This teacher had some political ambitions; in the Cultural Revolution, she served some position in a revolutionary committee. 61 00:07:39.500 --> 00:07:44.000 align:center line:-1 I forget what she told us at that time, but we listened to her incitement. 62 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:57.990 align:center line:-1 Maybe it was because our own teacher and our class had been awarded many top honors, so many people were jealous of her. 63 00:07:57.990 --> 00:08:05.210 align:center line:-1 During the Cultural Revolution, we lived in the university campus. 64 00:08:05.210 --> 00:08:14.250 align:center line:-1 We didn’t have classes, and all manner of comedy, farce, and tragedy were constantly being played out. 65 00:08:14.250 --> 00:08:21.040 align:center line:-1 We also got involved. I remember when we criticized Peng Dehuai, Peng Zhen, [and] Luo Ruiqing. 66 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:28.070 align:center line:-1 Those on the stage criticized them; those of us in the audience booed. 67 00:08:28.070 --> 00:08:33.230 align:center line:-1 When criticizing other "bad elements,” we also gave a kick in the behind. 68 00:08:33.230 --> 00:08:45.210 align:center line:-1 My [immediate] family was not impacted since my parents did not have a so-called "problematic history." 69 00:08:45.210 --> 00:08:55.940 align:center line:-1 However, my grandfather, who was a surgeon, had studied abroad long before. 70 00:08:55.940 --> 00:09:02.880 align:center line:-1 He went to Fengfeng [Hebei] and worked at a hospital there. 71 00:09:02.880 --> 00:09:06.900 align:center line:-1 He was struggled against during the Cultural Revolution, which caused his death. 72 00:09:06.900 --> 00:09:08.000 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Being struggled against caused his death? 73 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:12.190 align:center line:-1 Yes, or [we could say] being cruelly persecuted and tortured caused his death. 74 00:09:12.190 --> 00:09:15.100 align:center line:-1 During those ten years, we didn’t know; we only found out later. 75 00:09:15.100 --> 00:09:18.230 align:center line:-1 He held a lot of prestige in the local community, 76 00:09:18.230 --> 00:09:21.840 align:center line:-1 and was a member of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. 77 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:32.000 align:center line:-1 He was a devout Christian, a medical doctor, and opposed the family planning policy. 78 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:44.430 align:center line:-1 So, the local people thought he was a reactionary, and he had the background of studying abroad—[they] accused him of being a spy. 79 00:09:44.430 --> 00:09:55.800 align:center line:-1 He was cruelly struggled against, and after he died there was no place he could be buried, so he was just wrapped in a mat and buried near the jail. 80 00:09:55.800 --> 00:10:02.100 align:center line:-1 When his case was rehabilitated, my grandmother tried to find him; reportedly, he was buried under a tree. 81 00:10:02.100 --> 00:10:08.580 align:center line:-1 After digging around, they found a nylon sock; that nylon sock did not decay. 82 00:10:08.580 --> 00:10:14.000 align:center line:-1 At that time, we didn’t know any of this, so of course it had no impact. 83 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:17.500 align:center line:-1 But later, when thinking about it, I thought the whole situation was so cruel. 84 00:10:17.500 --> 00:10:29.890 align:center line:-1 I went to Germany in 2007, and went to the place where he went to school, where I found his files. 85 00:10:29.890 --> 00:10:39.010 align:center line:-1 In the future, I would like to write a book to record the generations of intellectuals in our family. 86 00:10:39.010 --> 00:10:45.000 align:center line:-1 I still think the Cultural Revolution is fascinating [to study]. 87 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:49.700 align:center line:-1 Before I left Beijing to go "up to the mountains and down to the countryside," though there were some little mishaps, 88 00:10:49.700 --> 00:10:56.840 align:center line:-1 I don’t have memories of any deep suffering. 89 00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:07.200 align:center line:-1 My next period of going “up to the mountains and down to the countryside” in Heilongjiang Corps was stressful, 90 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:09.100 align:center line:-1 because I did not come from a good family background. 91 00:11:09.100 --> 00:11:17.400 align:center line:-1 In the troop, we trusted each other; we were all Educated Youth, and there wasn’t too much discrimination, 92 00:11:17.400 --> 00:11:32.300 align:center line:-1 yet there were political tensions, like striving to be chosen for "soldiers of the corps" and so on. 93 00:11:32.300 --> 00:11:41.000 align:center line:-1 I was in the Corps for four years; overall, things went pretty well for me. 94 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:50.000 align:center line:-1 Now there is a serious polarization in evaluating [the experience of] Educated Youth going “up to the mountains and down to the countryside.” 95 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:55.000 align:center line:-1 One group says they have no regrets about their youth; the other says their youth was ruined. 96 00:11:55.000 --> 00:12:00.700 align:center line:-1 I wrote something about it—that there are two different ways [of viewing it]: 97 00:12:00.700 --> 00:12:16.550 align:center line:-1 if you see it as milk, you will never stop suckling; if you see it as a scar, you will continue to lick the wound. 98 00:12:16.550 --> 00:12:20.700 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Can these two ways of looking at it coexist? 99 00:12:20.700 --> 00:12:22.200 align:center line:-1 You can’t avoid that. Co-existence is the only way. 100 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:30.340 align:center line:-1 Certain people hold certain opinions, and this argument is getting more and more intense. 101 00:12:30.340 --> 00:12:35.090 align:center line:-1 If you go to participate in the discussions about Educated Youth, you’ll find it hard to take. 102 00:12:35.090 --> 00:12:46.390 align:center line:-1 Those who prospered later feel that experience was meaningful. 103 00:12:46.390 --> 00:12:54.760 align:center line:-1 [But] those whose social status was lower afterwards because of going “up to the mountains and down to the countryside” feel that experience was painful. 104 00:12:54.760 --> 00:12:58.380 align:center line:-1 What about me? I still belong to the group that has no regrets about my youth. 105 00:12:58.380 --> 00:13:06.850 align:center line:-1 I personally feel that going “up to the mountains and down to the countryside” was good for my personal growth, including my emotional development. 106 00:13:06.850 --> 00:13:13.100 align:center line:-1 Because, after all, my family condition is pretty good, as is my lifestyle, 107 00:13:13.100 --> 00:13:20.060 align:center line:-1 and I also have some feelings of what Marx called “bourgeois rights,” 108 00:13:20.060 --> 00:13:26.180 align:center line:-1 that is, some resentment about inequality in society as well as actual inequality. 109 00:13:26.180 --> 00:13:43.300 align:center line:-1 I just want to be an ordinary person. I don’t wish to be superior. It is just a simple and honest feeling. 110 00:13:43.300 --> 00:13:51.380 align:center line:-1 So I don’t evaluate “up to the mountains and down to the countryside” too severely. 111 00:13:51.380 --> 00:13:58.470 align:center line:-1 I felt it was good for my growth and maturation. 112 00:13:58.470 --> 00:14:03.510 align:center line:-1 I went back to Beijing after the Cultural Revolution ended, 113 00:14:03.510 --> 00:14:08.200 align:center line:-1 then took the college entrance examination, and started another kind of life. 114 00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:12.587 align:center line:-1 Interviewer: Thank you for the interview.
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