WEBVTT 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:03.000 Gilbert M.: South Carolina. 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:08.000 Peter Gottlieb: South Carolina. Gilbert M.: Yeah. Gottlieb: Do you know what part of South Carolina? Gilbert M.: Williamsburg. 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:12.000 Gottlieb: Williams- Gilbert M.: Williamsburg, South Carolina. 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:14.000 Gottlieb: Did your grandparents come from the same place? 00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:29.000 Gilbert M.: I don't know where my grandparents come from, now, you got me. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Gilbert M.: All I can tell you, my dad and my mother was born in Williamsburg, South Carolina, 25 miles from Columbia, South Carolina. Gottlieb: Mm. 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:31.000 Gottlieb: So kind of in the western part of the state? 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:33.000 Gilbert M.: [simultaneous talking] That's east. 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:38.000 Gottlieb: Okay. I don't know that geography that well. Did you ever know your grandparents at all? 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:52.000 Gilbert M.: I know-- Yeah, I know my grandmother before she died. But my grandfather, I've seen him a couple of times, but for me to know him personal, I don't. 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:54.000 Gottlieb: What kind of work did your father do? 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:57.000 Gilbert M.: Oh, my father. He's a farmer. 00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:01.000 Gottlieb: Did he have his own place or was he renting-- 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:06.000 Gilbert M.: [simultaneous talking] Nope. Nope. He rent for a while. And then he sharecrop for a while. 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:09.000 Gottlieb: What's the difference between renting and sharecropping? 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:34.000 Gilbert M.: Well, if you rent-- while you rent, you pay the rent for the land. And what you raise on the farm, what you got and you rent-- You rent it, that's yours. Sharecropping. I do the work. You give me the fertilizer and stuff to plant the stuff, and I do all the work, but you get half. Gottlieb: Uh huh. 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:37.000 Gottlieb: And it's my land. Is that right? Gilbert M.: Yeah. 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:41.000 Gilbert M.: It's your land. But you still get half of it. Gottlieb: Yeah. 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:44.000 Gottlieb: Yeah. Was he a farmer all his life? 00:01:44.000 --> 00:02:06.000 Gilbert M.: Far as I know when-- I would say in July, when, uh. When they-- What they call-- by this time to stop gathering, he used to go out and would do the public work, for dollar a day, dollar a quarter day, was the limit. Gottlieb: Mm. What kind of-- Gilbert M.: 12 hours a day. 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:08.000 Gottlieb: What-- What kind of public work was it? 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:17.000 Gilbert M.: Sawmill. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Gilbert M.: Railroad. But I don't think my dad work on the railroad-- He always worked around the sawmill. 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:23.000 Gottlieb: Did he have to go away from home to do this, or was-- 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:32.000 Gilbert M.: Yep. When he goes-- come home every two weeks. 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:48.000 Gottlieb: Hm. Did anybody else live with your parents and your-- and you? Any other relatives, uncles and aunts? Gilbert M.: Nope. No. Never. Gottlieb: How many brothers and sisters did you have? 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:56.000 Gilbert M.: I have two brothers living now. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: And one sister. But all of them were way younger than I am. I'm the oldest, you know. 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:59.000 Gottlieb: You're the oldest child. Uh huh. 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:22.000 Gilbert M.: See, my mother died when I was six months old they tell me. I don't know. That's what they tell me. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: I have a brother s'posed to be older than I am. But he died, they tell me, when he about 6, 7 months old. Gottlieb: Oh, I see. Gilbert M.: And then when I was born, they tell me, my mother died when I was six months old. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Gilbert M.: Quite natural. I don't know my mother. Gottlieb: Sure. 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:26.000 Gottlieb: Who-- Did your father have some help in bringing up the-- his children? 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:59.000 Gilbert M.: Well, was nobody but me, and his aunt helped him. And then the lady they pulled get married and she hoped, but they never did got married. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Gilbert M.: Then when he did got married, I had a-- pretty good little s-- But I stay with my-- His aunt. His mother's sister. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Gilbert M.: For a while. I got tired of the farm. Gottlieb: Mhm. Gilbert M.: And I run away. Gottlieb: You did? Gilbert M.: 1913. 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:01.000 Gottlieb: How old were you at that time? 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:04.000 Gilbert M.: Well, I born 1901 September the 23rd. 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.000 Gottlieb: So maybe 12 years old. 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:23.000 Gilbert M.: And I run away, I can, he got-- I run away the Monday morning after the second Sunday in March 1913. And I got a job carrying water in Rocky Mount, North Carolina, for $0.25 a day. 12 hours a day. 00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:26.000 Gottlieb: Well, what kind of place was it you were working at? 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.000 Gilbert M.: It was Land Coastline Railroad. 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:29.000 Gottlieb: Oh, it was on the railroad. 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:37.000 Gilbert M.: I was a water boy for the people who were working because I wasn't big enough to do the work what they were doing. Gottlieb: Yeah. 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:41.000 Gottlieb: Was it a kind of a section gang maintaining the road? 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:45.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah. Section gang. 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:47.000 Gottlieb: How long did how long did you stay on that job? 00:04:47.000 --> 00:06:24.000 Gilbert M.: I stayed until 1913. I leave. I leave, I quit in 1913 and I went to start [??] in 1915 and I run away. And 1917, no-- 1918. 1917 I went to Detroit. I worked for Henry Ford about 3 or 4 months. Then they start asking me about where was my draft card. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Gilbert M.: I didn't have nothing. And I leave Henry Ford and I come to Buffalo and I got a job over in Lackawanna, right across the bridge from Buffalo, the Bethlehem Steel Company. And May 15, 1918, when they register from 18 to 45, they got behind me again. Gottlieb: Mhm. Gilbert M.: And I leave and I went back home. Gottlieb: Mhm. Gilbert M.: I went back home to my dad. I didn't-- I never been-- I didn't have no draft card. And, uh, well, he was still sharecropper. And I went back and I worked with him on the farm. And I was assigned 1918, November 11th. And I stayed home until [??] December, after we got out of the war [??]. Then I leave. 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:29.000 Gottlieb: Mhm. Is that the first time you've been home since you left-- ran away? 00:06:29.000 --> 00:08:25.000 Gilbert M.: Yep. Yep. I was scared to go back. Gottlieb: Why? Gilbert M.: Well, I don't know. My daddy wasn't-- left when I was 13 [??]. Gottlieb: Yeah. Uh-- Gilbert M.: Man, when I leave, 19- No, December, I leave 1918. I was still-- I was assignmed November 11th. I leave in December, I come back to Richmond. I was in Richmond and I got a job with _____[??] for that. I do-- work, detect, callin people. I make a dollar and a quarter a day. And I stayed there until 1919 in April. And I went back to Buffalo just to ask [??]. And I stayed there til 1920, October, the 31st, October the 30th, and I leave from Buffalo, I quit. And I had a uncle living in-- over in Rankin. And I stopped by to see him. And he said to me the way to get a job. And he said all about, you know, when I got a job and I started working over Carrie Furnace. I worked-- that was 1920. I worked-- the first day I worked with October the 31st was Halloween. When I went to work at 7:00 and I got off 5:30 the next morning. And I stayed over there til 1927. Then they transferred me to move right back to the job I had. Every time I go to work with about 3 or 4 hours, my nose would bleed. 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:26.000 Gottlieb: Well, what kind of work were you doing? 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:43.000 Gilbert M.: I work in uh, dumpin coke for blast furnace. And the doctor transferred me over to Homestead. And that's where I been, in Homestead until I retired. 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:47.000 Gottlieb: You said you ran away because you got tired of farm work. 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:51.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah, I got tired of work. I ain't gettin' nothin'. Gottlieb: Uh huh. 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:57.000 Gottlieb: You're pretty young, though, to be out on your own, weren't you? Gilbert M.: Well I did. 00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:12.000 Gilbert M.: Well I did. You ask a question, I'll tell you the truth. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: Twenty-five cents a day. How long with that, I think I saved up what I had and there's some of these people saving today. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: Making $40 or $50 for eight hours. Gottlieb: Mhm. 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:16.000 Gottlieb: Was it just the fact that you weren't earning any money on the farm that made you over-- 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:23.000 Gilbert M.: I didn't get nothing, 'cept to eat and work. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: Some clothes. And it wasn't the best of clothes. Gottlieb: Yeah. 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:31.000 Gottlieb: Why do you think you had, uh, you had gotten the idea that you wanted to do a little bit better. Were there a lot of boys who were going away from home at that time? 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:56.000 Gilbert M.: When I leave, I leave by myself. Nobody but me. I was plowing. I took my dad mule, plowed down to the end of the field and took them loose from the plower, tied the tree, way we wouldn't get hanged up, and took off. I had nine pennies in a bulldog bag and that's all I had. 00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:59.000 Gottlieb: You hadn't told your father anything about it? 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:07.000 Gilbert M.: Nope. Hell naw. I'm gonna run away, you think I'm gonna tell him what, I'm gonna run away. No, you're not-- 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:10.000 Gottlieb: How did you know where you could go to find work? 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:54.000 Gilbert M.: I didn't know where I was going. I just-- wanted to get-- Get away from home. Get off the farm. I wasn't gettin' nothing. Quite naturally, I'm getting three meals a day now, don't get me wrong. I was gettin plenty to eat, but 5:00 in the morning, you got to get up and go to work. The young boys, some of them are out. Well, it always good and bad. Some of the other boys, their parents get-- let them go for a baseball game on Saturday. Come up the wrong way and go to show for them. I had to stay home and work because my dad hadn't got married again. Yeah, I had do all the work because I didn't have no sisters then. Was nobody but me. 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:55.000 Gottlieb: You were the only child. 00:10:55.000 --> 00:11:09.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah, but after my dad got married the second time, then the second wife had a child. That brother of mine. Now he's in Connecticut. I haven't seen him since 1947. 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:12.000 Gottlieb: Uh huh. He's your half brother? Gilbert M.: Yeah. 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:32.000 Gilbert M.: New brother by father. Gottlieb: Mhm. Gilbert M.: I have a sister in Charleston, South Carolina. We half brothers by father. I have a brother in Richmond, Virginia. We half brothers by father. But that's it. I don't have nobody on my mother's side with me. Gottlieb: Uh huh. 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:41.000 Gottlieb: Um, did you get along with your father pretty well? Gilbert M.: Yeah, sure, we got along. Gottlieb: Do you-- do you think he was pretty upset when you left? 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:45.000 Gilbert M.: I don't know. And I didn't write, and I didn't go back. 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:51.000 Gottlieb: You went back eventually. In 1918. Gilbert M.: Yep. Gottlieb: He ever say anything about you going away from home? 00:11:51.000 --> 00:12:08.000 Gilbert M.: He just ask me why. Well, I'd save money. I had money when I went back. And I didn't smoke, I didn't drink. I had about $1,100 when I went back. Gottlieb: Wow. Gilbert M.: And that was big money back down on the farm. Gottlieb: Yeah, right. Gilbert M.: But my father bully [??] 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:11.000 Gottlieb: Oh, is that right? 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:25.000 Gilbert M.: A couple of things, gimme $50, I got myself-- paid my way in 'cause back then-- then you didn't never get too old or mama father slap you down, if you give 'em one of them smart answers. 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:26.000 Gottlieb: No matter how old you were. 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:33.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah, I used to be married and living. When they tell you, Shut up, you better listen. 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:43.000 Gottlieb: Was your father a churchgoing man? Gilbert M.: Yep. Gottlieb: So you were brought up in the church down there. Gilbert M.: Yep. Gottlieb: The Baptist? Gilbert M.: Yep. 00:12:43.000 --> 00:13:00.000 Gilbert M.: No, no church. I tell you, church where I was baptized, 1912, St. Matthew Baptist Church. Gottlieb: Mhm. Gilbert M.: My dad was the first pew [??], you know, in the church. 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:03.000 Gottlieb: Mm hm. So he was always very strict about going to church. 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:11.000 Gilbert M.: Oh yeah. When he go to church, we go. Gottlieb: Yeah. 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:18.000 Gottlieb: How did you know-- How did you find this job in North Carolina? Being a water boy. 00:13:18.000 --> 00:15:11.000 Gilbert M.: I never met before-- man that asked [??] him. He ask me where I was from and I told him, I asked him, I said, could I get a job doing something. And he said, kid, what could you do, that's what he called me, he said kid. I said, I can work. He said, Well, you be here in the morning. 'Cause what do you-- I said, I ain't got no place to stay. I slept on the back of a station on the platform that night. The next morning I met him. He took me out and told the foreman, said, I got a young kid here. He want a job. He looked at him and he said, What could he do? I couldn't work. He said, best you can do is carry 'bout four quarts of water. You know, I take the money you're going to get for water. And then I got this old man, and he-- he's the one taught me how to work. And when I worked that day, and he just told me all-- the name was Charlie Cooper. He took me home with him that evening and he give me a little-- He had a little-- ______[??] a little shed room on him and he let me sleep there. Now his wife, she give me something to eat. And when I got paid $0.25 a day, you know that money a whole lot. Gottlieb: Sure. Gilbert M.: But I paid him outta that and he didn't take it all, but he take some and he leave me with some. It were like-- He took-- took me, trained me, and I learned how to swipe [??] and I learned how to do work like girls do. Then I quit. And I went to Detroit. 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:15.000 Gottlieb: So you-- you worked there for about, uh, 4 or 5 years? 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.000 Gilbert M.: 1913. 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:21.000 Gottlieb: 1917. That's when you-- 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:38.000 Gilbert M.: __________[??] I went to Detroit. Gottlieb: Hm. How-- Gilbert M.: And 1918, when we got back, got home and got the registration card, I quit it, uh, and I come to Buffalo, and I go work for the Bethlehem Steel Company. In Lackawanna. 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:45.000 Gottlieb: Had somebody told you about Detroit when you went up there. Gilbert M.: No. Gottlieb: Had you heard anything about-- 00:15:45.000 --> 00:16:04.000 Gilbert M.: Yep. I heard-- I hear older folks talkin'. Along then, the old folks-- the older people didn't talk with the young people, not so much. The only thing you can get, you have to listen. But you better not let them catch you. Just eavesdroppin'. Gottlieb: Mhm. Gilbert M.: That's how I find it. 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:09.000 Gottlieb: There were other men who had worked up there and come back? 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:15.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah. And I know, one old man, he had two sons working up there. 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:20.000 Gottlieb: Uh, did you know anybody up in Detroit when you went up there? Have any relatives? 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:30.000 Gilbert M.: I did-- This man that had them two boys over there, I-- I heard him call the name. He called his son name. Well, when I went to Detroit and I inquired, I found 'em. 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.000 Gottlieb: Hm. How did you get the job at Ford's when you were there? 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:38.000 Gilbert M.: Oh, the, when the boys took me down to the employment office. 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:55.000 Gottlieb: Mhm. And did you live with them while you were there? Gilbert M.: No. Gottlieb: Were you staying at a boarding house? Gilbert M.: Yep. Gottlieb: Were there places where you might have been able to find people from certain parts of the South if you would wanted to, like, uh-- Gilbert M.: Well, I-- 00:16:55.000 --> 00:17:20.000 Gilbert M.: --met a whole lot of people, but I never did associate with many people. When I was young, I didn't drink, I didn't smoke. And all I do, I went to work. When I come back from work, I put in my room and stayed in the room. 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:25.000 Gottlieb: Did you ever meet anybody from the same part of South Carolina you were from? Gilbert M.: [simultaneous talking] Oh, yeah. Yeah. 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:31.000 Gilbert M.: I met him in Buffalo, but not in Detroit. 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:34.000 Gottlieb: Huh. What kind of work did they give you to do at Ford's? 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:44.000 Gilbert M.: I used to polish them Model-- T-Model Fords. Back then Copperhead Radiator cap brass. I used to-- I used to polish them. 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.000 Gottlieb: Do you remember how much they were paying you back at that time? 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:50.000 Gilbert M.: $2. Gottlieb: A day? Gilbert M.: Yeah. That was big money. 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:57.000 Gottlieb: Wasn't Fords the place where they were supposed to pay you $5 a day? Gilbert M.: Not then. Gottlieb: $2 a day. 00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:33.000 Gilbert M.: The only way you-- You could make any money. Of course I make some money after I was there for about a month or maybe two months. They put me on the job doing the same-- The same work. But it was piecework. You had to do so much. And then you fill that, if you want to work over then you make extra money. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: Piece work. Gottlieb: What-- Gilbert M.: They call it then, they call it tonnage. Gottlieb: Yeah. 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:42.000 Gottlieb: When you started getting trouble by the draft, why did you decide to go to Buffalo? Of all the-- all the places you could've gone. 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:49.000 Gilbert M.: [simultaneous talking] 'Cause I didn't want to go to jail if you want to know it. Gottlieb: Yeah, but-- Gilbert M.: I knew I hadn't registered. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: And when they got after me in Buffalo then I went home. 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:58.000 Gottlieb: Well, let's-- Let's say a person who didn't know about your life, they might think you could have gone anywhere from Detroit. Why did you decide to go to Buffalo? 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:27.000 Gilbert M.: I never registered. Gottlieb: Mhm. Gilbert M.: I never registered. Right. When I went to Buffalo, then when they start, I went home. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: And when I went home. When I went home, this man that my dad was a sharecropper with, he was the president of the bank. And he register-- He had me register. Then he fixed up the draft and I went back on the farm and worked with my dad til after the war was over. Gottlieb: Yeah. 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:30.000 Gottlieb: Did you know anybody in Buffalo when you moved? 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:38.000 Gilbert M.: No, when I went to-- I met some people. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: Just like you do in the town. You can meet people and meet-- and make friends with them. Gottlieb: Uh huh. 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:44.000 Gottlieb: Had you heard-- had you heard people talking about Buffalo the way you had heard 'em talking about Detroit? 00:19:44.000 --> 00:20:19.000 Gilbert M.: Oh I heard 'em talk about a lot of places. Just like today. One state I never been in, but I've always-- Lord let me live, I wanted to go for it now. California, I never been to California, but the way people-- I listen to people subscribe it, I imagined what it would be if I was going to California. You can see it on TV and different places. You can get a hotel on different streets. I when-- I arrived to get there, I could look up and look for them particular places. Gottlieb: Yeah, right. 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:27.000 Gottlieb: Um, and so you went to work for Bethlehem Steel when you were there? Gilbert M.: Yeah. Gottlieb: What kind of work did they give you to do? 00:20:27.000 --> 00:21:06.000 Gilbert M.: Oh, well, very, very good. It was labor, and, uh, I work about three weeks. Well, you can call it labor, labor gang. Then they called it a Bull gang. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Gilbert M.: And, uh, when I leave, I had a good job when I leave, and I was with-- Fella was a blacksmith. He was colored, but he was-- He said he was Bull gang. And they sent me over and I work with him. But I made some money then, and I makin' $12 for 6 to 6:30. I'm making $11.77 a night. 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.000 Gottlieb: Just helping him. 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:14.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah, I like this help. When they got behind me, with that draft, I leave. 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.000 Gottlieb: Uh huh. Somebody come down to see you about that or something? 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:35.000 Gilbert M.: The foreman come by with my registration card. We-- I registered-- with my draft card. I said, I told them why, I said I registered down South. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Gilbert M.: He said ____[??], I said no, at home. I ain't never register. He go, we want you in 24 hours and I quit. 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:44.000 Gottlieb: Uh huh. And so you left within one day. How long had you-- how long had you stayed in Buffalo when they started getting on you about that? Do you remember? 00:21:44.000 --> 00:22:19.000 Gilbert M.: I stayed in Buffalo 'bout-- I was there about six months. I went Buffalo in February 1918. And I leave-- it wasn't six months. I went in February and I leave in July. I leave right after the registration, May the 15th, 1918 from 18 to 45. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: I leave three weeks after that. Gottlieb: And when-- Gilbert M.: They registerin' from 18 to 45. 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:26.000 Gottlieb: And when-- but when you went back down South, you did register. Gilbert M.: Yeah. Gottlieb: Uh huh. And-- But you were never called? Gilbert M.: No. 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:30.000 Gilbert M.: 'Cause I went and stay on the farm til the war was over. Gottlieb: Yeah. 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.000 Gottlieb: And then at that time, you were just helping your father? 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:57.000 Gilbert M.: I was-- Yeah, I was on the farm. But he share cropped with this white man. President of the bank. Gottlieb: Yeah. Mm. Gilbert M.: And he owned about two, three thousand acres of land. He just had people just sharing crops. Some was sharing crop, and some was renting. All of them wasn't sharing crop, now, some was renting. 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:00.000 Gottlieb: How many-- How many acres was your father farming at that time? 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:03.000 Gilbert M.: 25. Gottlieb: 25? 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:07.000 Gottlieb: And he was raising cotton, mainly? Gilbert M.: Hm? Gottlieb: He was raising cotton? 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:13.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah, he was raising cotton. Corn. Sweet potato. Tobacco and peas. 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:18.000 Gottlieb: Do you remember about how many bales of cotton he would be able to make on 25-- 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:37.000 Gilbert M.: I could you numbers for what we made, 1917, 'cause I was home. But I know well as it was, it was-- brought out about-- Breed of cotton called a long steeple. Long staple cotton. Before we get two bale cotton per acre. 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:45.000 Gottlieb: Mm hm. Was he ever able to make anything? Gilbert M.: Who? Gottlieb: Your father? I mean, get ahead any? 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:46.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah, he wanted to. 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:47.000 Gottlieb: Yeah, I want. 00:23:47.000 --> 00:24:22.000 Gilbert M.: Well, them people down there back then, you pay, but you never pay out of debt. When you go to pay, all the way-- he all the way to the-- Some of them was lucky enough to pay out. But they didn't have nothing left to leave when they pay out. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: But the moreso would leave in debt. He patch on the show [??] so he almost made it. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: Next year you'll make it. 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:30.000 Gottlieb: And they never did. Hm. So your father stayed in debt pretty much from year to year? 00:24:30.000 --> 00:25:06.000 Gilbert M.: Well, he did got out of debt once, or twice. He got out of debt. Then he started raising cattle for himself. But he still was farming. All the cows and hogs he had and his horses and stuff, they was his. He bought her and paid for her. But so far as [??] money, I don't think he ever-- But he was accumulating no bank account. Amount or nothin. Far as I know. I don't know. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.000 Gottlieb: Did he work right up till the time he died, or was he ever able to-- 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:53.000 Gilbert M.: Not-- 19-7, I can't tell you. 'Cause I, the last time I talked to my father was 1927, and I came back. I went on down South and he-- talk with him when I leave, then I didn't go back. When I went back home, I didn't-- I leave 19-- 1927. And I didn't go back home when we were-- 57. Well, when I went back home in 1957, they're telling me my father died 1932. So now I can't give you no history on what happened. Gottlieb: Yeah. 00:25:53.000 --> 00:26:03.000 Gottlieb: Had you been able to keep in touch? I don't remember if you told me this before or not, if you'd been able to keep in touch with your-- With your father when you had been in North Carolina and Detroit. 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:07.000 Gilbert M.: Nope, I didn't ever-- I didn't write. I didn't write. 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:09.000 Gottlieb: After you left there-- 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.000 Gilbert M.: When I leave, 1927, I didn't write. 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:16.000 Gottlieb: You didn't-- What about between 1920 and 1927? 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:56.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah, surely I didn't write nobody. 1927 there was some misunderstanding between me and Dad. And that would-- And I didn't write-- ever-- I even have some relation right up there. But I think all of them dead. Find out from friends. They'd go home. They'd tell them where, give 'em my address. When I get a letter, I moved. I didn't want to be bothered. Gottlieb: Yeah. 00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:05.000 Gottlieb: When you left the-- South Carolina again in April 1919, I think you said it was? 00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:17.000 Gilbert M.: Well, even-- well, even-- I went home and I was assigned 1918, November the 11th. Gottlieb: That's right. Gilbert M.: And I leave in February, 1918. 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:25.000 Gottlieb: Okay. You went back to Buffalo? Gilbert M.: Yep. Gottlieb: Were you able to get that same job back? Gilbert M.: Nope. 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:27.000 Gilbert M.: Nope. I didn't get that job back. 00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:33.000 Gottlieb: Did they remember you from up there? Gilbert M.: Yeah. Gottlieb: They gave you your job. 00:27:33.000 --> 00:28:00.000 Gilbert M.: I, I got another job and I stayed there, I worked there from 1920. I leave Buffalo and quit 1920, October the 30th. Gottlieb: Right. Gilbert M.: And I came-- got off the train in Braddock, October the 31st, 12:00 in the night to find my uncle. He was living in Rankin. I found him. 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.000 Gottlieb: [simultaneous talking] Was your-- Your father's brother? Your brother? Gilbert M.: No. Gottlieb: Your mother's brother? 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:05.000 Gilbert M.: No, my mother's brother. 00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:07.000 Gottlieb: How long had he been up there? 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:12.000 Gilbert M.: Well, he's been up there-- He came up there in 1917. 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:17.000 Gottlieb: Did-- had he lived right around the same part of South Carolina, that-- 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:23.000 Gilbert M.: Oh, right-- sure, call, just [??]. 00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:30.000 Gottlieb: Had-- had you had any plans to to come to Homestead and stay when you left Buffalo-- Gilbert M.: No. Gottlieb: --or were you just traveling? 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.000 Gilbert M.: When I came here, I came to stay three weeks. 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:36.000 Gottlieb: And where were you gonna go after that? Did you have any-- Gilbert M.: I did-- 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:56.000 Gilbert M.: I did-- I had a little money. I stopped by to see my uncle. I had it in mind to go back down South. And after I got a job and stay, I didn't go. 1920 October 31st. 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.000 Gottlieb: Was there any particular reason you had quit your job in Buffalo? 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:02.000 Gilbert M.: No, I just got tired. 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:04.000 Gottlieb: You didn't like the work? Gilbert M.: Nope. 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:14.000 Gilbert M.: I like the work. Well, you're young. You work for it. You get your mind. I'm going to work. This is the place. That's the way it was. Gottlieb: Mhm. 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:19.000 Gottlieb: Are your plans to go back South to farm? Gilbert M.: Nope. Gottlieb: Did you-- 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:25.000 Gilbert M.: I had a girlfriend down there. I said I was going down to see her and I never did go. 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:33.000 Gottlieb: So it was pretty much by accident, you ended up staying here? Gilbert M.: Yep. Gottlieb: When you were working-- 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:50.000 Gilbert M.: [simultaneous talking] And I went back-- I did go home in 22, and I got married, when my wife was-- 23, I went home, and I got married and then my wife come up here. 00:29:50.000 --> 00:30:01.000 Gottlieb: Had you known her since-- Since you were a small boy-- Gilbert M.: No. Had you met her when you were back in South-- in 1918? 00:30:01.000 --> 00:31:47.000 Gilbert M.: Oh, back long, then. Back long in then time, why, I would just-- See what it cost you now go then to Philadelphia. One way. We used to-- guys would go home, go down South and back for $27 round trip. Now you can hardly go from to Washington, D.C. for $25. Gottlieb: Yeah, that's right. Gilbert M.: And yeah, so we used to go and then-- and then-- when in the summertime you get six month leave of absence from the steelworkers. Gottlieb: Six months? Gilbert M.: Leave of absence, then you can go to work with any contractor that you can make more money what you makin' a steelworker. But then that's-- when that six months is up. You going back to the steelworks and going to work. You don't have to be reexamined no more. You just going back. Go back a couple of days before the sixth month-- you're going back to work. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: Along then, they wasn't paying, but steelworker pays $3.35 then for 12 hours. Well, they said ten hours, they didn't have no union then. You go to work 7:00 in the morning til you get off 5:30 but then the foreman going to work, 7:00. He'd wake up maybe ten minutes, 25 or 25 minutes after 4:30 before. And he said, everybody work overtime. And if you want your job, you have to stay and work. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Gilbert M.: But after the union come in, it's a different story. Gottlieb: Yeah, right. Gilbert M.: They had to come around and ask you, did you want to work? Just like it is now. It was back then. 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:49.000 Gottlieb: He said it. You did it. 00:31:49.000 --> 00:32:27.000 Gilbert M.: And if you-- see, I knew. And maybe 5 or 6, ten more workers under the same foreman. And you, the oldest man. And you know that-- you know what the job was. And he tells you, he said, Tell me, there was-- 3 or 4 of us say. You goin' to work with him today and you-- maybe you don't like me and start with. Well, we get out on the job and maybe you don't like me. You said, Well, what's wrong with you, saying, Well, how come you ain't doing this and you fire me? Well, there ain't no need for me to go to the foreman because you fired me. I'm fired. I'm fired. 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:33.000 Gottlieb: Hadn't they started to-- tried to start a union around 1919? They had a big strike. 00:32:33.000 --> 00:33:08.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah, 1919. But I wasn't here. 1919, they had a strike, what they called a Hunky strike. Gottlieb: Oh, yeah? Gilbert M.: Well, a lot of colored Philadelphians was head chairman and foreman. Well, Hunky-- that wasn't actually what you call it. They went and formed a line and all the colored come out with them on the strike. They come out of one gate and the coloreds were dumb enough. They come on up on the corner and the whites, they hunkies, they went round to the other gate and went back in the middle, went on to work and got the job. 00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:09.000 Gottlieb: While the Blacks stayed out? 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:15.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah. Well they went back. When they went back they didn't get the job back they had. 00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.000 Gottlieb: They got worse jobs. Gilbert M.: Yeah. 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:34.000 Gilbert M.: The men went back in labor. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Gilbert M.: We were working toilets before, but I wasn't here then. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: I'm only speaking of what I was told. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Gilbert M.: But that was 1919. I didn't come here til 1920. Gottlieb: Right. 00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:38.000 Gottlieb: You had been in Buffalo, though, at that time. Had they had to strike at Buffalo? 00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:42.000 Gilbert M.: Never there. 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:53.000 Gottlieb: When you were staying, when you began to work at the Carrie Furnaces, were you living with your uncle? You stayin' with him? Gilbert M.: Yeah. Gottlieb: And you stayed there-- Did you tell me until 1927? 00:33:53.000 --> 00:34:08.000 Gilbert M.: I stayed at my uncle two weeks. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: And I got me a room, an apartment of my own. Which it was in the same building. He had his-- he had his own apartment. I had mine. 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:09.000 Gottlieb: And that was over in Rankin? 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:11.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah, on Middle Street. 00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:18.000 Gottlieb: What did you think of Rankin? What did you think of Homestead when you first came here as compared to the other places you had seen? 00:34:18.000 --> 00:35:17.000 Gilbert M.: Well, I'll tell you. I don't know. You put the both in the bag together. I don't know which one would come out first. I think I liked it over in Rankin better and I like Carrie Furnace better, but on account of where-- the job I had, and I used-- my nose would bleed, I had to-- about every other night I got to go to hospital when they transferred me from Rankin over to Homestead. And I know, thank God, I knock on wood. At the time I was transferred, I never had a hemorrhage until-- I don't know-- What I don't think I'd be able to have a hemorrhage when I go to hospital. I never had another hemorrhage til after I come out on pension. Gottlieb: Mhm. Gilbert M.: The doctor ask me, did I wanted to live. I said, may [??], he said, I'll get you a job. And then he got me a job on the rail-- working the rail, on the railroad right here for the US Steel. 00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:19.000 Gottlieb: Huh. In the mill yard? Gilbert M.: Yeah. 00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:28.000 Gilbert M.: And I never had a hemorrhage until after they transfer me to Carrie Furnace. I never had another hemorrhage. And then after I come out on pension in 67. 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.000 Gottlieb: You said you were loading coke in the blast furnaces over there? 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:48.000 Gilbert M.: No. See there, you bring the cars up to them gun doors. Well, you had to dump them car in a bin and then the conveyor take it up to the furnace. 00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:52.000 Gottlieb: What do you think it was about the job that made your nose bleed? Gilbert M.: I don't know. 00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:54.000 Gilbert M.: Now, that's something-- I can't answer that. 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:56.000 Gottlieb: Was it-- was it heavy work? 00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:19.000 Gilbert M.: No, I didn't have a shoulder-- all I do open the door and take a sledgehammer and hit on the side and all let it drop. Then I close the door. Then I wait and sit there. The engine-- engine come up and make the shift, take the empties out and put the load on. Now, what caused it? I couldn't tell you that. If you asked me that, I can't answer. Gottlieb: Yeah. 00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:26.000 Gottlieb: What kind of job did you have to perform on the railroad over here in Homestead? 00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:35.000 Gilbert M.: Oh, I just use a burning torch for 30, 33 years. One-- acetylene torch, you know one of them? You ever seen one? 00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:42.000 Gottlieb: [simultaneous talking] Uh-huh. Yeah, but if you-- But if you told me that you used a torch, I still wouldn't have very good idea of what kind of job you had to do with it. 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:50.000 Gilbert M.: I cut real plates and anything they wanted to cut done to use on railroad. 00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:54.000 Gottlieb: So you weren't working in any specific department. You would move around from one place to-- 00:36:54.000 --> 00:37:01.000 Gilbert M.: No, that's one department. Strictly one department. 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:10.000 Gottlieb: And you stayed that-- right there for the rest of your career with them. Gilbert M.: Yeah. Gottlieb: Mhm. Did you move over to Homestead when you got this other job, or did you stay in Rankin? 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.000 Gilbert M.: I moved home. 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:20.000 Gottlieb: Can you tell me about the places where you've lived since you've been here? The different addresses. 00:37:20.000 --> 00:38:19.000 Gilbert M.: I live 535 Dixon Street. I live 504 alley-- alleyway on Dixon Street. I live three-twenty--what was my number? Three-twenty, 329, one of the row houses, and I live on Third Avenue. I can't remember that number, but when I moved from 535 Dixon Street. Back then, that was 964. We live in Glen Hazel, was it-- Unidentified speaker: 962. Gilbert M.: 9-- Then I moved over to Glen Hazel in the project, 962 Broadway Yard [??]. Then when we move out of the project, we move on 120 West 13th. And when I move from West 13, I move here. I've been here ever since. 00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:21.000 Gottlieb: You lived in a lot of different places. 00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:25.000 Gilbert M.: Well, I paid-- I paid the rent through every place I've been. Gottlieb: Uh huh. 00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:28.000 Gottlieb: Did you ever want to own a home in Homestead? 00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:38.000 Gilbert M.: No. Wasn't no way you're gonna get me one of those one. Tax too much [??]. 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:42.000 Gottlieb: Were you a good friend of Mr. Middleton's for many years before you-- 00:38:42.000 --> 00:39:14.000 Gilbert M.: Were-- We moved. We project-- Well, when I moved from the project in 1954. I move in on 120 West 13th. He was living on the-- on the first floor and I live upstairs on the second floor and we stay there together until we move here. Gottlieb: Mm. Gilbert M.: And when he move in that house, I move in this one. We-- We've been together ever since. Gottlieb: Uh huh. 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:19.000 Gottlieb: Did you know him before you lived at West 13th Street? 00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:30.000 Gilbert M.: Well, he-- I didn't know who-- he relation to my wife who died, but I didn't know him too personal. 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.000 Gottlieb: Mhm. When did your first wife die? 00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:38.000 Gilbert M.: My first wife died in 17. Because she didn't live but a month. 00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:40.000 Gottlieb: Oh, you didn't tell me about her. 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:45.000 Gilbert M.: Well, I ain't got nothing I can tell you. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: I can't tell you nothing about her. 00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:47.000 Gottlieb: You were just married for one month. 00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:50.000 Gilbert M.: We got married June the 17th. She died July the 17th. 00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:52.000 Gottlieb: Is that when you were in Detroit, or? 00:39:52.000 --> 00:40:02.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah, I went home, you know, 'cause my dad had decided. And her dad. Gottlieb: Oh, uh-huh. Gottlieb: Understand? 00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:05.000 Gottlieb: Yeah, was-- she was from the same part of South Carolina. 00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:08.000 Gilbert M.: Yep. We went to school together. Gottlieb: Uh huh. 00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:11.000 Gottlieb: Was she living in Detroit with you? 00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:18.000 Gilbert M.: [simultaneous talking] Nope. Don't care [??]-- How's she gonna live? And we married in 17. Me and my wife never slept in a bed together a damn night after we got married. 00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:20.000 Gottlieb: What, did you go back to Detroit then? 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:32.000 Gilbert M.: No, I was in Virginia then. 1917. Gottlieb: Oh. Gilbert M.: That's why I didn't bring that in because I can't get no history on it. 00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:52.000 Gottlieb: Yeah. Yeah. Gilbert M.: Because she died in childbirth. Gottlieb: Yeah. That's true. Gilbert M.: I got one of the boys living out in Petersburg, Virginia, and one got killed about 3 or 4 years ago in Richmond. So I can't give you a whole lot of history about that. 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:54.000 Gottlieb: So you've been married three times? Gilbert M.: Yeah. Gottlieb: Uh huh. 00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:13.000 Gilbert M.: I know why I been married. My wife married me for-- to make me work. Unidentified speaker [wife?]: [unintelligible] Gilbert M.: Yeah, baby. If I don't work, how are you gonna live? Huh? I mean, we young. We were much younger then. 00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:22.000 Gottlieb: You married your second wife in-- tell me, 1922? Gilbert M.: No. 23. Gottlieb: 23. 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:30.000 Gilbert M.: Married her from 1940 or 42. I think 42, we were married. 51, 7 [??]. I don't know. 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:32.000 Gottlieb: Did your second wife die as well? 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:51.000 Gilbert M.: Yeah, she died 535 Dixon Street right down below the project. I ain't killin' her, though. 00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:58.000 Gottlieb: Did you like Homestead better than the other places you had lived in the north? Better than Detroit, Better than Buffalo? 00:41:58.000 --> 00:43:02.000 Gilbert M.: I think so. Gottlieb: Why? Gilbert M.: Um, because I have spend all-- the biggest of my life here Homestead. Gottlieb: Mhm. Do you know-- Gilbert M.: Where could I go today and walk down the street? I work in Richmond, Virginia. I work in Buffalo. I work in Detroit. And then when I was floating around, I worked-- when I was workin' for the Atlantic Coast line. Of course, you weren't stationary. You go to Savannah, Georgia. You maybe be there for a week or two weeks. You don't know nobody. You just move in and move out. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: Now, let's say Detroit, Richmond, Virginia and Buffalo. Let's say, Lackawanna. Where could I walk -- go today, in either one of those three places, and walk down to a furniture store and say, I want a TV. I ain't got no money. I'll make the payment. 00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:05.000 Gottlieb: You could do that here? 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:35.000 Gilbert M.: I would-- I could get on the phone and call and say, I want a TV. How much is this? And my wife said she-- I said, well, the wife would come down and look at it. If she like it, I can't make no payment. I send this down there. You can get it. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: Now where can I do that anywhere else? Why-- Where I was born and raised, I couldn't go down there and buy a book of matches on credit. Now, why shouldn't I call this block from 1927 to 76, Right? How many years is that? 00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:40.000 Gottlieb: 1927 to 76-- 39? 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:54.000 Gilbert M.: Oh, man, you better go to school. Gottlieb: 49. Gilbert M.: Take 20 from 75, from 75. Gottlieb: That's 55. Gilbert M.: Take 20 from 75. Leave 55. Gottlieb: Right. That's what I 00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:55.000 Gottlieb: said. 55. 00:43:55.000 --> 00:44:05.000 Gilbert M.: Now I'll be here in Homestead if I-- God, let me-- God, let me live, this coming October, be 56 years. Gottlieb: 56 years. Gilbert M.: And that could be all of my life. 00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:13.000 Gottlieb: That's right. What I meant to ask was, what did you think of it when you first came here and was living here? 00:44:13.000 --> 00:45:22.000 Gilbert M.: Well, now that's the million dollar question. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: When you young, you brain ain't right. Do you want to stay here, do you want to go there. And you got-- you going [??] to make up your mind, which way-- whether you want to leave or whether you want to stay. And if you just keep running when you wind up, you'll wind up as a bum. When I had in my mind, I said, If the Lord ever let me live, I wasn't gonna steal. I'm gonna work on this living. I get a job, Imma keep it. And if I get married and my wife have any children and something happen and me and my wife can't get along, I'd never stand to see another man raise my children. And it never happened. Gottlieb: Yeah. Gilbert M.: If I don't have nothing but bread and water, I give to the children have bread and water but don't ________[??]. 00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:26.000 Gottlieb: So Homestead was just a place where you finally decided you were gonna stop moving around. 00:45:26.000 --> 00:46:26.000 Gilbert M.: I stayed and stayed-- three weeks and three weeks end up-- I was here. And look like I ain't gonna leave 'cause I got too old now.
Reddit
Twitter
Facebook