C., Harvey, December 2, 1973, tape 1, side 1

Peter Gottlieb: The following is an interview with Mr. Harvey ___ of 1504 McClure Street in Homestead, Pennsylvania, recorded on December 2nd, 1973. Mr. ___ home. Okay. Try it again.

Harvey C.: Now, I was born in Union Springs, Alabama. 18 and 93, October the 27th. Genuine Springs. Ellen Now, now, the one that brought me into the wall was a midwife. Her name was Betsy Hubbard. That was her name. Betsy Hubbard. And I lived there. I was born there, as I said. 1893 October 27th. I lived there until 1912.

Gottlieb: Do you about 20 years old?

Harvey C.: No, I don't think it.

Gottlieb: Would be.

Harvey C.: 1919 to say around. I stayed there until. 1913, as I said. Huh? Yeah. Okay. Now, we. I was a member at the year of eight years old, baptized at Sardis Baptist Church. Union Springs, Alabama. I cannot. School and catechism on the highway was the first man that taught me from him to Francis. Ivy from Francis to Bethesda Smith and from Union Springs, Festus Smith from there to Tuskegee, Alabama, under the guidance of Booker T Washington. And I only went one year in college. I left there and came to Chicago. So I worked in the inland steel plant for about eight months. I was called from there to the army. I was up in the Army in 1918 and got my honorable discharge in 1919. Then I came here and I started in the Homestead plant, which wasn't called the US Steel at that time. When I started, uh, 19, 19, the 11th of the month, the 11th day and the 11th month I started in the plant. Uh huh. Later on they changed it to the United States Steel, which, uh, I was called at that time. A Thai foreman, then turned informant in Alberta, was called to turn Foreman. Yeah. After being turned informer. Then I become a supervisor at the plant. The eighth month. The 28th day. 48. And I remained as supervisor from that time. That's not working right now.

Speaker3: Give you what I want from 48.

Harvey C.: I've become to be supervisor and the management from 1948 until 1958. I c November the 1st. That's when I retired from from the plant. She had nearly.

Gottlieb: 40 years down there.

Harvey C.: 39 years. 39 years. And yeah, 39 years. I was there 39 years. So they now I served in the First World War during the time of I told you I was in the Army, 1917 to 1918. And I joined Clark Memorial Baptist Church and arriving here and July of 1918 under the Reverend Aurora Jones. Later. The church was he was he was sick when I came in and had pastors coming in to preach for them. Then Dr. Emma Talley came in 1922 and he passed on to Dr. Tony's passed on, and his son, Dr. Donald. Tony is passing now. And I've been with that church from the time that I joined up until I left out this afternoon. Also, now I've served as a capacity the commander of the White Post, the American Legion Post, 160. Also served in post 704 for the last 25 years. His service officer through the post 704. And also I said in the lower among the Haley Valleys ushers union as finance officer, vice president and the president up to the present time, I'm still the president of the Lower Gila Valley Union. I served this 36 years in our ownership board and our church vice President, the President, the Treasurer and so forth. And I serve as the president of the layman's vice President, president and was off for two years and is called back to serve 1974 of the layman's of Clark Memorial Baptist Church. And my parents, we was on the farm. We did good. We as farmers could do. My father passed on, my mother's passed on. So up until now, I had no regrets.

Gottlieb: Do you mind if I ask you a few questions?

Harvey C.: No. No.

Gottlieb: Okay. Could you tell me what kind of farm you had in Alabama? What kind of things you grow and what what you can remember about the kind of work you had to do in there?

Harvey C.: Well, that's easy now. A regular farm, what you call farming. It's a regular farm. Same as someone would have a flower garden. It's got to be cultivated the same as any grow. But you have acres and acres, probably 25, 30 acres to what they call one farm. And then you grows, whatever In Alabama was mostly a corn belt. A cotton belt? Yeah. We grew corn. We grew cotton peas, peanuts, watermelons and so forth. Uh huh.

Gottlieb: Was did your parents were they sharecroppers or did they rent?

Harvey C.: No, they they owned their own land. How many acres did 197 acres. My goodness.

Gottlieb: That was pretty large.

Harvey C.: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They had sharecroppers.

Harvey C.: For them. Yeah. Oh I see. Yeah. They had sharecroppers. And man by the name of Luke Howard and a man by the name of Bill Ball. And Frank Townsend was sharecroppers on that farm, you know, How.

Gottlieb: Were your parents able to get all that land?

Harvey C.: Well, uh, as far as I knew of that, my grandfather and heard and heard the first of the small amount, maybe 30 or 40 acres through his master. See, that was in slavery. Yeah. He was enslaved. Yeah.

Gottlieb: But he was given the land.

Harvey C.: He was given the land. See, because at that time, throughout of all walks of life, someone was very well liked. Say now they never called him Austin C.. They called him Uncle Austin, See. But he was enslaved then. Just about. He lived till after the emancipation. After the war. After the slavery. Yeah. So then Judge Hubbard, as far as I know of that, was the probate judge. He had thousands and thousands of acres. So he gave him this home, this house and this land. Then he added to it. He bought it out, right? That day began and he inherited it through his master. Say, Yeah.

Gottlieb: So you were able to. Oh, I wanted to ask you this. How many other children were there in your family?

Harvey C.: Seven.

Gottlieb: So were there seven in all or seven plus you?

Harvey C.: No, Seven in all.

Gottlieb: Were you the oldest or. No.

Harvey C.: Oldest. My brother. My brother was oldest. Uh huh. Then we had two that passed. Paul and Benny. Then my sister Austin. Uh huh. That made the. The four. Right. And my sister Dolcetti made the five. My sister Charlie Lou made the six. And Harvard, which is. I am made the seventh.

Gottlieb: So you were the youngest?

Harvey C.: Yeah. Yeah, my youngest one. The family. Yeah.

Gottlieb: And you were able to go all the way through school, right up to college? That's right. That's right. That's right. Uh, what were the circumstances that made you decide to go to Chicago?

Harvey C.: Well, the conditions of the people, because segregation, of course, was all over the country. But the segregation was bad. Uh huh. And we wanted to go out where they used. Now was true or not? Free speech. Yeah. You didn't wasn't afraid to hold a meeting or have. I will talk things over. But way back then, in the early days of my father, them, they couldn't have a meeting unless they had a closed door meeting. They went, If you went out, if you was De-wei or you was. They must, as a black man is at that time they call them Negroes. Then you was kind of protected say, but it grew inch by inch a little bit better say until. But the people started when they of course a lot of them couldn't leave the South. A lot of them died in the south. But we provided and we left on our own terms and so forth. And I go down there and my boy, he goes down there to the old home farm. We go down there practically every year. Oh, you're.

Gottlieb: Still going back.

Harvey C.: There. Still going back there.

Gottlieb: And the farm is going to family.

Harvey C.: Oh yes, yes.

Gottlieb: Oh yes. Yeah. Did you did you know about a job when you went to Chicago or did you just go up looking for work without knowing whether or not you had a had a place there?

Harvey C.: Well, uh, not having a place there, but we decided we would go north, left Union Springs and went to Birmingham, Alabama.

Gottlieb: We just. The whole family.

Harvey C.: No, no, no, no. Just myself at that time. So when I got to Birmingham, it was a colored family, thereby robbing, uh. Uh, John Coleman. Coleman. He had a son. Some of them was up in Chicago in the inland steel plant. So he said to me, I can get in touch with John and you can get up there and he can get you in the mill. But saying, I won't guarantee you only you'll go up there expecting labor, but you can get. So that's where I went. Uh huh, uh huh. So then after starting in the mill, you had to sign up for so much if you didn't have no dependents. So I just taken went off to the army. Uh huh. So when, uh, talking to my dad and him while I was in the army, they came here to Homestead the homestead, and they stayed here from around 1914 or 15 until 1927. They went to Detroit, Michigan. My oldest brother still living. He spent the week here at ten days with us this August. I see. Yeah.

Gottlieb: Let me go back for a minute to the time you spent in Birmingham. Did you did you do. Did you get some work there? Yes, you did. Can you tell me about what kind of jobs you were doing and.

Harvey C.: I was working out at the Rockwell out at Tan City just for about six weeks. And I left there. I was employed about six weeks and what they call a rock call. That thing is a coal mine. But they digs rocks and this red clay, what they call they. That's what they used to grade the road with down through the south side. So probably, maybe I might have been there now. Perhaps. But by getting to this boarding house.

Gottlieb: There were the Reverend Coleman. Yeah.

Harvey C.: He said, me and another boy said, Now, uh, if you'd like to go up to my son, this was young. John Fagan was with me. If you'd like to go up there, he can get you a job up there and inland steel plant. But it'll be labor. And I'm not. Promise you. But he can get you on. Yeah.

Gottlieb: And so that's when you went up.

Harvey C.: That's when I went up.

Gottlieb: And was that in 1912?

Harvey C.: No, no, no, no, no. That was in 1912. When I left in 1913, I believe. I said, wasn't it? Yeah. All right. Now, when we went when when we went to Birmingham, we went to ten City and out at ten City we worked, uh, uh, different jobs on the streets. And this, we wasn't just the employed, uh, study, but we at this office, they would call you out. Uh huh. They said they needed you. Oh, I see. I see. So the only two places that I was employed that was out at Town City at Rockwell for about six weeks. And then I went to Chicago and stayed there about 14 months. Then I was inducted in the Army. Then after the Army, I met a friend, a white fellow by the name of Weghorst. He got to know me well and he said, So. Harvey said, If you ever come to Homestead, I can get you a job because my dad is a superintendent would carry a funny. He said, Look me up. So when I got out the Army, I came here and I found him and I got a job. I wasn't here over two days before I got a job.

Gottlieb: What kind of. What kind of, uh, position did you have in at Inland Steel in Chicago when you. When you went up to Chicago?

Harvey C.: Uh, missionary work. Brick department. Brick department. Missionary.

Gottlieb: Um. Uh, where where did you find a place to live? Up there. Did you have any relatives or no friends?

Harvey C.: No, but this reverend was looking out for people, was running boarding houses, see, But they had imagined that the white went. But it was a colored boarding house. Uh huh. Uh huh. See? That's where I stayed. He sent us there and that's where we stayed. I stayed there until I was inducted in the Army. Say.

Gottlieb: Was that the first time you had ever been in the North? That's right. Do you remember what what Chicago looked like to you then, or what impressions you had of the other city?

Harvey C.: Well, the impression of those high winds, it could be done or what? And all over blue skies, it's just like a cloud busting the wind. Then you'd go to the lake and they were attracted my attention. It seemed like muddy water, just as muddy as could be. On this side was clear. Nothing clean, but it just worked together. And it never makes you would think that the muddy water, what we would call it at that time, would run clear. But one on one side stayed across the lake. Uh huh. One side was muddy, what they call red, and the other was just as clear as a Christian.

Gottlieb: And that's what you remember about Chicago? That's right. That's right. That's right.

Speaker3: That's right.

Gottlieb: Uh, and so when you got out of the Army, then you came to Homestead.

Gottlieb: Homestead. Now, did you say that your parents were living here at that time? Family? That's right. And also, you had met somebody else who was a Cooper tenant at Carrie Furnace.

Harvey C.: I mean. His father was a superintendent and, of course, was a white fella, too. He wasn't colored. Yeah, he was a white fella. And he got to like me, know him. And he said, You ever get out of the Army and come to Homestead and said, Look me up so I can get you a job? Because my dad is a superintendent over at California. Uh huh. So when Rankin we called it Homestead cause they wheel and axle is down on North Side and the Homestead plant and the Rankin plant, which they called Chalfonte, is the Homestead United States district mills all saying combined. But the part. Yeah, right.

Speaker3: Um.

Gottlieb: What? Did your father have a job in the mill at that time?

Gottlieb: What part of the mill was he working?

Harvey C.: He's working in the sanitation department at the employment office. Uh huh.

Gottlieb: And had he come and he brought your whole family here?

Harvey C.: Yeah. Yeah, he got the family here.

Gottlieb: So did you put your brothers working there, too?

Speaker3: Yeah.

Harvey C.: Yeah. They got a job in the mill. Yes, he got a job in the mill. Now, see, it was very easy because they had a few cattle and so forth. Well, they was about one of the average black livers in the south at that time. Yeah. Yeah. See, So then in turns, uh, they left one of my sisters there. She didn't know she died in the South. She passed 3 or 4 years ago. Her husband was put a nice man and the remaining he left them to look. To look it over. They take charge, you see?

Gottlieb: So why did they decide to come to Homestead instead of some other city?

Harvey C.: Well, I'd imagine I wasn't here, but I'd imagine people was traveling was getting more that you could get about. And I'm sure that he was recommended to come to Homestead.

Gottlieb: So when you when you came here after getting out of the Army, did your parents have a have a house? They rented a place.

Harvey C.: Yeah, they rented the place.

Gottlieb: Do you remember where that was?

Speaker3: Yeah.

Harvey C.: 517. Hazel Street.

Speaker3: Oh, Hazel.

Harvey C.: Hazel.

Gottlieb: I don't know if I. I don't think I know where that is.

Harvey C.: It's next to Sam's Drugstore there on eighth. And that street run. It used to run down to the river. Yeah, but after the war, the Second World War, they bought up all those tenant houses and come up to the tracks. Yeah, but they lived 517. Hazel. Hazel.

Speaker3: Huh?

Gottlieb: Uh, didn't know. Did you tell me that you came here on November 11th, 1919? That's right. Uh huh, that's right. And you got a job right away in the mills? That's right. Wasn't there a strike on at that time?

Harvey C.: Yes. Strike. Yes, I got in there. That's how my dad got me in there. Wait a minute. You.

Speaker3: What? Something missing?

Harvey C.: I'm too far over.

Speaker3: Yeah. Here it is. Right here.

Gottlieb: November 11th, 1919.

Harvey C.: That's just history, Mom.

Gottlieb: And did you say you were able to get a job in the mill at that time because there was a strike on.

Harvey C.: Well, in particular. But I got home to Whitehorse because his daddy was at that time, he was the Burgess. It was no mayors. He was the Burgess in West Homestead and also superintendent at Chalfonte. I see. So it was no that whenever I got in the mail, when I got in, I found him and he happened to be home and he told him who I was. So he said, You go down to the employment office whenever you want to. And my dad will have it fixed. Oh, I see.

Gottlieb: Did you get in any trouble with any of the people who were striking at that time? No, You didn't. No. They didn't try and stop you from going in the plant.

Harvey C.: It was 90. She wasn't. I mean, the way they wasn't employing at that time, but they had a unique way that you could get in the mill. But now all we were doing is like clean up, like, you know, the supervisor and I worked in 2 or 3 strikes that they locked the gate on for his. I'd have to stay there 24 hours around the clock, see. But they got so many people in there. And I guess because you was from the south, we didn't know no better than what they call scab so far as that concern. You know what I mean? Oh, we knew we was getting a job, right?

Gottlieb: So it didn't matter to you that there was a strike?

Harvey C.: That's right. That's right.

Gottlieb: Where did they put you to work?

Harvey C.: Well, on inside the mill.

Gottlieb: Well, what kind of in which department and what.

Harvey C.: Kind of work? Well, department. I was working in the industrial engineer's office. The industrial engine. They had the big office, and that's where we stayed. Oh, I see. See?

Gottlieb: And you had to stay there night and day. Oh, yeah. They didn't let you come out?

Harvey C.: Oh, no, they didn't let me come out because they said it's too dangerous. But yet I went to work. I don't know what's all about. About the strike at that time.

Speaker3: Right.

Gottlieb: And how long did that last? How long did the strike continue? Oh.

Speaker3: Methylation?

Harvey C.: Well, it started in, I think, around July. August. It lasted about four months.

Gottlieb: And so finally, you were able to, uh, just, uh, come out of the mill? Oh, yes.

Harvey C.: Whenever was over. Yeah.

Gottlieb: But until it was, you had to.

Speaker3: Mill and.

Gottlieb: You weren't able to come home to your family. Oh, no.

Speaker3: No, no.

Harvey C.: Because it was too dangerous. Because they still. They had at that time the state road troopers. They had horses at every gate. Oh, I see. At that time. Uh huh. So then that was to keep anybody from going through the gate, and then they patrolled it, running and riding up and down. At that time.

Gottlieb: Were the mills going?

Speaker3: Oh, no, they weren't.

Harvey C.: No, the mills wasn't going. Oh, you have to keep it takes thousands and thousands of dollars to close down an open hearth and open it up. But all they did is.