Anonymous, May 3, 1976, tape 1, side 2

Peter Gottlieb: Go ahead. I don't mean to interrupt you. Anonymous: But there are, some of the-- the-- the advances here in the-- especially the-- the pay and the jobs and the money business. Gottlieb: But you hadn't even intended to get a job when you first came. Anonymous: No, no. Gottlieb: Do you remember why you decided to get a job? Anonymous: Well, I found out that the job was paying more than the job that I left. And so I just sell it for more money. Gottlieb: You didn't tell the people in North Carolina that you weren't coming back then when you left there? Anonymous: Well, no, I didn't tell them I wasn't coming back. I told them I was leaving and that's all, I said, I'm leaving. So maybe they took it for granted I wasn't coming back because I didn't go back. Gottlieb: Yeah. Anonymous: Oh, I have been back, but. Gottlieb: Yeah. Yeah. How did-- Did living in a city suit you as well as living out in the country? Anonymous: In a way, I like living in the city better than being in the country.

Anonymous: The convenience is better. That's only reason why, is nothing-- nothing happened at my home that I didn't like and I wanted to run away from. Gottlieb: Right. I understand that. Anonymous: But the convenience and the pay money they hand out is better now than it was then. Gottlieb: Yeah. Yeah. By convenience, do you mean the way the houses were equipped? Anonymous: Yes. Gottlieb: When you were living in Homestead, did you notice any difference between the Black people who had like yourself, moved up from the South and the Black people who had been born and raised in Homestead? Anonymous: No, I didn't. For I really didn't know who was at the time, who was born and raised here. Gottlieb: Yeah. Anonymous: I just found out lately know some of them that was born here. But not, not not too many to my knowledge. Gottlieb: Yeah. No one ever pointed out any differences to you either about those who had been born in the South and those who had been born in the North. Anonymous: No. Gottlieb: Can you tell me how you came to be a member of Second Baptist Church? Anonymous: Well. I've gone to church all my life, ever since about 12 years old. And we had a lovely fellowship in our church. Their friendly, spirit-filled and I came to Homestead. I live on 14 and this church on the corner. Well, I visited that church and the first Sunday I came after and then, well, went about two Sundays.

Anonymous: Then I went-- A friend of mine invited me to go to her church and hers was down on Sixth Avenue Church and I went down there with her. And when I walked in that church, that Second Baptist Church, I just felt at home. They-- the women, especially the older women, they were so friendly and they know that I was a stranger because they had never seen me before. And they just put their arms around me and made me feel welcome and all them just so friendly when the-- When the pastor, Reverend Jerry Morton, when he got up and preached and he preached, I used to remember his text and I forgot it. And the church was just crowded with people. And I found myself, now I'm going to join this church. And when all the call was call, I went up to join the church. Alright, Reverend, this-- this past over here belong to the past around, crossin' more out. I live next door to him. And so -- when he got ready to go to the church the next Sunday morning, he says, okay. He says, don't be late. I says, I am going to my church this morning. He said, Your church? What do you mean your church? I said, Down Second Baptist.

Anonymous: And he said, You mean to tell me you live here next door to me and you go down on Sixth Avenue and join the church? I said, Yes. I said, Those people down there was mighty friendly. They're lovely people that I ever met. I said it made me feel like I just was at home in the church with my people at home. I said, So that's why. And from that day to this day, the Second Baptist has always felt that way to me. I-- we shouldn't be worship our church. We don't worship our church. And we go to-- we go to church to worship. But what I mean, the the building is-- the church is a building for your worship in and God is in the building. But I, I don't know. I love the church. I love every member of the church. And-- and so I told them that. And that's why and to me today I don't think it's a church anywhere in-- in-- in Allegheny County, in the valley, now we got 40 pages out there. I would say I don't think it's any better in Second Baptist, but that's how I feel. Gottlieb: Do you know anything that makes it that way for you, aside from you talked about, you know, the friendliness of the people there?

Anonymous: Well, you know what I mean. I've been born again. By the spirit of the Lord.

Anonymous: And when you go to church and worship while you're-- God is a spirit and you go with the spirit of God in you and praying that he will fill you in more, that you will enjoy the-- the-- the songs of the choir preaching of the, uh, the preacher and his sermon. Then you can have something within you. You don't go to the church and I don't go see who is this and where and see what kind of dress this and you got on and what kind of hats she wearing went or how. But you go because there's a spirit of God is born within you and you go to worship and get away from the the earthly-- the-- on your job. You get upset and somewhat upset. You're in school. Maybe you don't get you-- you problems, right? I mean just upset you and everything. But when you go to church then it's a different feeling, different atmosphere altogether. Gottlieb: Mm. Anonymous: And I just think with all this I have, I don't derive, have nothing against some of the things that go on. I mean the organizations and all, but I think the church is the greatest organization on earth because with all the others and it make good but I think it's the best. It's the best. And that's the way I feel about the church. And I always have been. I was converted, you know what I mean? I guess you do know what I mean. I shouldn't ask you that, do you know what I mean? When I was 12 years old, when we accepted Jesus as our Savior, you have to believe, you know, you have to believe it in you. We. We never seen God. Nobody's ever seen God at any time. But you believe that there is a God and that is your faith that you're going that you and-- and-- and Jesus said he that believeth in on me and is baptized will be saved. But you've got to believe it because you've never seen it. You understand what I mean? Gottlieb: Yeah. Anonymous: Yeah.

Gottlieb: Was there any kind of rivalry between Clark Memorial and Second Baptist at any time?

Anonymous: Not that I know of. I mean, like I said, we all-- there's nobody's perfect. I mean, all we may have maybe, you know, all the churches might have faults and failures somewhere, but around not-- not that I know of because a lot of. Maybe business doing that, I wouldn't know. But for all I know.

Gottlieb: When you first started going to Second Baptist regularly, did you join any of the church organizations like the Missionary Society or the Sunday School or things like that?

Anonymous: Oh, yes. They-- one of my friends used to tell me, you know, that-- that around you tease me. She thought she teased me, said you at the church every time the door open. I said, I'll open the door sometime because I had the key to the church. I belong to the senior missionary circle. I belong to the usher board. I sang on the choir. I was a president of a club for 16 years, taught Sunday School for 35 years. And all of my-- my health is failing me now. I can't do. But I have been busy. He met ever since I been in the church. Well, I'm just warming my season up. We would say I was busy. Not that maybe I was perfect, but I always trying to live the way I think a Christian ought to live. And you say you're a Christian, you believe in God, then you should live so others will know your part. But the sinners out here that don't believe and you say you believe and then you ain't no better than acting no better than they act. You're not setting an example and always saying the old, old men and women too, should set the example for the young ones. See, because they-- they had, they're more experienced. So I-- I've been belong to almost everything in our church except preacher. And after I have preached and was the advocate for deacon once but we had been didn't make it.

Gottlieb: So were your parents Baptist as well? Anonymous: Yes. Yes.

Anonymous: All my family is Baptist. All the way back there.

Gottlieb: Did you ever belong to any other kind of clubs not connected with the church? Any kind of social clubs or anything like that?

Anonymous: I did one time belong to the Housewives Guild when I lived up in and around Glen Hazel. And I belonged once to a lord of a household of Ruth. But I couldn't keep up what I mean by I couldn't keep up. I didn't use-- the church to me was more important. And you had to have money and all these organizations and you and-- and with some of them, you didn't have the money to keep up and pay your dues and-- and pay your vows. What did you pay? Well, then you just won't enter. But with the church, you can stay in the church, uh, without having to pay. You should pay a man. But what I mean, you don't be put out if you don't. And so. And so I let them go. Because the church, to me, is the more important in my life. When I was young and now I'm old and it's still more important to me and any other organization on the earth that I know now. I don't-- I don't have nothing against them. Anybody that wants to and that love them and the different clubs and things. But you-- I think that's all right. But just me and that's the things of the church I belong to the things of the church. There's clubs in the church like this. Like what I just told you. The Missionary Circle.

Anonymous: Sunday School. Oh, we had BTU. We don't have that anymore.

Anonymous: Baptist Young People's Training and. Well. Well, I. Well, since I've been sick since last September, I haven't sang. But I do sing in one of the groups in our church. Called Crossbearer's Chorus. I sang the choir first. And then with this group. And soon the Lord blessed me to get well enough. I'll be back. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Anonymous: Yeah.

Gottlieb: Uh, how many children did you and your husband have? Anonymous: Just one. Gottlieb: Just one child? Anonymous: Just one.

Anonymous: She died-- be two years in September. Not September. July.

Gottlieb: Would you mind telling me what different addresses you've lived at since you've come up to Homestead?

Anonymous: You mean you? I could tell you the street.

Gottlieb: Well, if that's as much as you can remember. Anonymous: Yeah.

Anonymous: But I know now I live on 14 and on 12, and on Fifth, and on Third. Not long, I lived around over in the-- Oh, you mean the streets in Homestead? Gottlieb: Yes. Anonymous: Yeah. Now this is 13th Avenue. Next one over. I lived over on 14 for a while and then on 12th and then on Fifth, then on Third. Yeah.

Gottlieb: So you moved from the hill down into the ward? Anonymous: Yes. Gottlieb: Uh huh. What, what addresses did you stay at in Pittsburgh?

Anonymous: Oh, here in Glen Hazel, 1066 Rivermore Drive. Gottlieb: Yeah. Anonymous: And-- and Church Village [??], stayed over there nine months, the only nine months. The street was Aliquippa. That was up in the house. Apartment. Know, when you get older, when you get older, your memory is not quite as keen. Of course, you don't know yet.

Gottlieb: Well. You've been able to tell me a whole lot and don't seem to have much trouble remembering the things I'm trying to ask about. Uh, I think that's about all the questions I had to ask you. If you think that I've left out anything that would be important for somebody who's studying what I'm studying to know, I'd appreciate your telling me, but otherwise, I don't have any other questions.

Anonymous: Oh, well, bless you. I'm glad-- did I help in it? Gottlieb: Oh, yeah.

Gottlieb: Okay.