T., Lee, March 10, 1976, tape 1, side 1

Peter Gottlieb: This is an interview with Mr. Lee T. of 612 Hawkins Avenue, North Braddock, Pennsylvania. Recorded at Mr. Lee T.'s home on-- May 26th, 1976. [audio cuts]

Gottlieb: The way I usually begin is to just ask people could they tell me something about the family that they grew up in. About their mother and father and where they were born and came from. What kind of work they did and things like this.

Lee T.: I lived in South Carolina with both of them. They worked on a farm.

Gottlieb: Do you know what part of South Carolina?

Lee T.: Union and [??] South Carolina.

Gottlieb: Did you know your grandparents at all?

Lee T.: No. Didn't know them.

Gottlieb: So both your parents were working on farms. Lee T.: Mhm. Gottlieb: Did your father rent that farm or did he own it himself? Lee T.: He did own. Gottlieb: Can you tell me what kind of farm it was? Something about the farm. What kind of things you raised on it?

Lee T.: There were cotton, corn, and hogs and cows. Corn, cotton, hogs and cows.

Gottlieb: Did he make a pretty good living or?

Lee T.: Very well. We had plenty to eat. Plenty to eat. Kill your own meat. Got your own chicken and eggs. Your own dogs go to hunting when you want. Your own fishing tackle to go to fishing if you felt like. Nothing but a pole, you know?

Gottlieb: Were they renting from White people?

Lee T.: Yeah.

Gottlieb: Do you, do you remember what kind of arrangement it was? Was he on halves or what-- did he pay him a money?

Lee T.: No, it was sharecrop. Just where you do it like. Speaker3: Yeah, sharecrop. Lee T.: Right. Yeah, that's like if you got two bales of cotton. He got one. You got one. That's the way it goes with us and so on. Yeah, you just divide it down the line. Now, mind you, didn't have to divide the chickens and hogs. Right-- everything was raised on the farm.

Gottlieb: Did he own his own work stock and tools and things like that?

Lee T.: Yeah. Now if you rent in half, you have-- you own your whole [??] If you rent then you own your wholes. If you rent you own your stuff.

Speaker3: I think we have the most [??]

Lee T.: You reckon on half? Yeah, if you-- but if you rent it he gone [??]. Speaker3: I remember when papa had something, you know? Yeah papa had like, about four or five I think.

Gottlieb: All the while that you were growing up in South Carolina, did your father stay on that one farm or did he move from--

Lee T.: [unintelligible]. We moved three times, and he went over he went over with Chester and rented or whatever. Right? I'm talking my daddy. Speaker3: I don't know, maybe papa did. Papa went to Houston and Wilkins and Waynesburg. Was it? Yeah. Houston and Waynesburg. He left Waynesburg. I think he bought a home. He got a farm over near Chester, on the other side of Chester, right up the York road on top of that lake. Lee T.: He would? Speaker3: Yeah. And like as soon as she bought one over there beside him because they had all that land in there together. They bought that land, and all that land and all together. Lee T.: They bought that. Lee T.: Yeah they bought that. I don't know whatever become of that land. [unintelligible] other land, there's things that start going down, you know? He had plenty of land.

Gottlieb: Is this person you're talking about related to Lee T.?

Speaker3: This was his sister.

Gottlieb: Ah.

Speaker3: And, Lee. Lee was his brother in law? Was he your brother in law? Yeah he was your brother in law. I used to go down there and stay with him during the summer, you know? I'm from South Carolina, too. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Speaker3: I used to go down and stay with both of them, especially my great aunt, during the summer. My mother would do this to keep me out of trouble and what not. Keep me off the streets.

Gottlieb: Did your father ever have any kind of, uh, work that wasn't involved with farming? Like on the railroads or [Lee: No] in a sawmill or anything like that?

Gottlieb: Did, did the children in the family have to help him out on the farm?

Lee T.: Oh yeah, you better work. How the childrens gone eat if you ain't going to work. Man what are you talking to. Yeah, you kids, you-- I better not catch no kids lying dead in bed. He better get out of there before somebody up in the morning and don't no man wants to know why. You'll steam [??] your level out the bed. He'll steam you up. Speaker3: You know, it's a funny thing back then, you know. Lee: He'll steel [??] you boys is how I like a big [??]. Gotta get out of there. Speaker3: Most of the time people's like. I remember every morning we used to get up. I don't know why this coming back to me. We used to get up every morning, man. Like my boy let us do nothing, man. Before we start praying, you just have a word of prayer every morning. This is every morning, especially on Sunday mornings. Lee: Oh my God. You better not go to that table unless you get on these [??]. Speaker3: That's right. You thank the Lord for everything he did. Lee: You ain't you. But you know what, though? And hope and pray to God was dealt away now. And that way the boys wouldn't get into no trouble, man. They wouldn't. They wouldn't be on dope.

Lee T.: They wouldn't be stealing, robbing and killing. I'm telling you. You got-- you got to get on these boys before you-- and hope was dealt away nice. And on Sunday morning, my God. You better get ready for that Sunday school. And before you eat, you going to get on here and get ready for church-- Sunday school. Speaker3: in the morning before you eat, papa used to tell, he blessed that whole house before you go to bed when you get at the table. he'd bless the table too. Lee: Nothing gonna change. Speaker3: You see so many kids today, man. Like-- they don't have no respect for their parents. Lee T.: Tell an old man to kiss his tail. Speaker3: Jump on him. That's something I never have done. I never have decepted you. I never have cursed you. I never have hit you. I never have done nothing. Lee T.: You got better sense. You got better sense. Speaker3: This is the way I was brought up. Lee T.: You got better sense. Speaker2: This is the way I was brought up. Like I never have cussed my mother. I never have hit her or nothing. That's something my mother don't like. I guess too much respect. Lee T.: If you talk back to her right now. Speaker3: Oh, yes. She's not gonna have it. Lee T.: She would hit you with any odd thing she could get her hands on. Oh, if you talk back to me.

Speaker3: Most of the kids around-- I see so many kids around here that brag, man, all over, they don't have no respect. Lee T.: Tell those folks. Speaker3: Oh, man. Lee T.: I heard a boy say one time, he's a White boy now, in the mill. What did he call his papa? [laughs]He said, the old man was talking to me this morning and it hadn't been for mama, I would beat the-- so and so shit out. He cussed. Said, I would have killed him. What do you call that? He said, if Mama don't stop I would have beat the shit out of him. I would have killed my dad. Oh, son of a-- you know what I said? I went back and said-- we would call him Cowboy. He would have done it too, boy. I'll tell you. Speaker3: Too much wicked in the world. Evil. People ain't got no love in their hearts and stuff no more. I don't know. It was amazing thing would come over me. Lee T.: You better not. You better. You better leave and get out of here. What time? So you know-- Speaker3: That's true. Lee T.: And you know how to be driving too fast and going away. Yes sir.

Gottlieb: What kind of work did-- what kind of chores did you have to do around the farm when you were growing up?

Lee T.: Work on the field, man. Cotton, corn, plier, hoe, cut and grind. Anything. Cut hay. Stack it up for the women. Yeah, that's a good living now. Now I'm telling you. And in the wintertime, don't kill your own meat. Sometime in the summertime, the old fellow-- what's your name? Gottlieb: Peter. Lee T.: Peter. Sometime in the summertime, when you eat. Beginning to get a little bit of low. You got a little yelling about that, holler [??]. A little bull or something like that. On there and go out there. We'll kill that. Kill that beast tomorrow. Come on and see what I mean. Heating and kids running and playing and eating and outings. But you got wet now, old man. And when he tell you he's going to give it to you before you lay down the night, that's what was coming. Now he ain't gonna forget.

Gottlieb: How many brothers and sisters did you have?

Lee T.: Five of them. Five sisters.

Lee T.: Aunt Ella. Speaker3: Ella wasn't your sister was she? Lee T.: Yeah. Speaker3: Ella was your sister in law wasn't she? Lee T.: No, I ain't talking about. Speaker3: You're talking about Aunt Ella, the one-- Lee T.: No, no, no, no, no. Five.

Gottlieb: Just five sisters. And you were the only boy?

Lee T.: No, I'm the boy. That's right.

Lee T.: I ain't got no brothers and sisters no more. You know I ain't. Speaker3: Yeah Henry-- Lee T.: Yeah. Died. Speaker3: Henry. Farrell. Arthur. And whats the one that was in Philadelphia? Lee T.: Uh. Speaker3: What was his name?

Speaker3: The one who died in Philadelphia not too long ago. Lee T.: Oh, Brook. Henry. Speaker3: What was his name? Henry? Lee T.: He had about four of them. About four I think. Four brothers. Lee T.: How many sisters? Gottlieb: Five. Lee T.: I think that's right, now I ain't going to guarantee you that.

Gottlieb: Okay. Did you have anybody else living with you besides your parents and your brothers and sisters? Were you able to go to school very much down there?

Lee T.: Just as much as that telephone did. You know what that means? Gottlieb: Uh huh. Lee T.: Is that telephone been to school? Gottlieb: Uh huh. Lee T.: I ain't been to school three weeks in my life. I didn't have a chance to go to school. I'm glad I didn't go. Had I-- tunneled through like the rest of their kids and folks.

Gottlieb: Was there a school near the place where you lived? Lee T.: It wasn't too far.

Lee T.: Yeah and I'd tunnel through, Black-- quick I ain't got good sense now. Didn't want to do the things up there, but I used to got sense enough to stay out of trouble.

Gottlieb: Uh, do you remember wanting to go to school? growing up? Do you remember wanting to go to school when you were-- you were growing up?

Lee T.: Anyone went? Gottlieb: No. Speaker3: Did you want to go to school? Lee T.: I don't know, like you ask me a question I can't answer. I didn't know that much about school because we working all the time.Working the rest of us. But I would go to Sunday school. I guess that's why I know a little something about that now. We'd go to Sunday school, but this-- no, how am I the time to go there?

Gottlieb: Did, did any of your brothers and sisters have a chance to go?

Lee T.: Two of them. I think.

Lee T.: Yes. Well, we went to Sunday school now, but he's going to school. Speaker3: Worked all the time. Lee T.: Huh? Speaker3: Worked all the time. Lee T.: Yeah. But now, listen, you ain't got to lose me too much in questions and there-- Spearker3: Uh-- no. Lee T.: And I ain't know that these two out there with kids go to, they just go to school and you give them enough education to wind up in the electric chair, prison. All about killing. Stealing. Speaker3: I wouldn't say that. Lee T.: Well, the most of them do. Speaker3: I wouldn't say that. Lee T.: Well, how many times-- look how old I am. Speaker3: Yeah. Talking about an old school though.

Lee T.: What old school? Speaker3: Old generation. Lee T.: Oh, yeah. Speaker3: So what I was doing was I got an education and don't know what to do with it. Lee T.: That's what I'm talking about. Speaker3: Yeah. They wind up in drugs and shit. They ain't doing anything-- Lee T.: They steal and they get on dope and do everything. You can hear them cussing in the street out there any time of night. Speaker3: They're the ones that [??]. The others work mines and things. Lee T.: Well, if they had any good sense they wouldn't be the other way. Speaker3: The ones that the parents don't care nothing about them. You know, you'd think-- you'd be surprised if the parents don't care nothing about the children and stuff? Just turn them out there. Go-- Lee T.: I never said they turn them out. Speaker3: Yeah, they said go. They don't care. You look at so many women now, a days. These kids out here in the street, playing all the time at night, you know where their parents and things is at? In the beer gardens. In the clubs. That's-- Lee T.: Some of them. Some of them sleep. I agree with you though. Speaker3: That's true. Lee T.: I agree with you there. Well, now listen. That book gone tell you kids that they have no knowledge of or understanding of doing good. Huh? Speaker3: True. Lee T.: You don't have no knowledge of doing good. Speaker3: Right. Lee T.: See? But they have the knowledge, the wisdom and the understanding of doing evil, but not to do good. They got all the knowledge of doing these evil things, but to do good, you know? Speaker3: Amen. Lee T.: If it's. If it's wrong, get out. That man right there. What trends now I have no idea.

Lee T.: In other words, they go to school-- which I don't believe in no school books or some things like that. You better get off me and go to work, boy. So you don't have to drive too fast. Speaker3: I don't have to drive parents and drive no where. Lee T.: Okay, then go ahead. Okay. Right. Now.

Lee T.: If he had the understanding, he would do good. If they had the wisdom and knowledge of doing good, you know what they would do? Huh? They would pause from death if they had good sense, wisdom and knowledge. Quick to see and pay attention. Okay. I can talk to you on this. I can talk on this telephone and talk to you the same time. Now, which I ain't got the sense, but now listen. If you had wisdom and knowledge. [audio cuts].

Speaker3: I don't care how bad it is.

Gottlieb: How old were you when you came up here?

Lee T.: Oh, I was a full grown man.

Gottlieb: Do you remember how-- what your age was?

Lee T.: Oh, I was old enough to get out by myself.

Speaker3: About 21. 22 or 23.

Lee T.: Are you trying to-- you're trying to put words in my mouth. Speaker3: No, no, I'm not trying to put nothing in your mouth. I'm just saying I think you were about 20. I know my mother was about 60-- My mother was 61. 62. She might not be 60, but my mother, when the three days-- she was about 2 or 3 weeks old when he come up there. Lee T.: How old, how old was she? She was about 66.

Lee T.: Oh, you trying to check up on me? Speaker3: And she's the baby. Yeah. Yeah, Lee T.: I'm older after that. Huh?

Gottlieb: So what year was that? Around 1916. 1917.

Lee T.: 19?

Gottlieb: I was just asking what year it was that you that you did come up here?

Lee T.: But yeah, I was running from the law when I come up here. Gottlieb: Is that right? Lee T.: No, I'm just kidding [laughter]. No, man-- Speaker3: Tell the truth. Your sister lied about that. Lee T.: He ain't got nothing to do but sit around here and talk. Is you? You got to turn this in?

Gottlieb: No, it's for me.

Lee T.: That's for you. Oh, sit down, boy. Speaker3: Have to go to work. Lee T.: You know, I'm 87 years old, sonny boy.

Gottlieb: You're 87.

Lee T.: I'll be 87 the 16 day of June, 1889. Ain't that funny, man? Sometimes I feel like. Sometimes I feel it all in my bones. Feel so good. I feel like I-- I feel like a bird out there. He ain't got nothing to do but [??] his wings and clean out. Somebody would make me feel good. So I can't on so bad.

Speaker3: Yeah, you walk. He does a whole lot of walking and stuff too. You don't sit around and let your bones get stiff. Lee T.: I walked home as quick as I walk from here out to there and got a pass. I can ride em too. And it don't cost me nothing. So get out in Brighton. He always wanted to catch me right there. Soon, man. But catch me to stoke. But as I got a whole lot of stuff riding on me. All right. Like what I can put in my shopping bag and bring home in my hand. But I won't ride in the car. Speaker3: Oh, rain might get you-- Lee T.: If it's rain. Yeah, I'll take you out there. I'll give you an out for rain so much. Speaker3: Yeah, you're right. Lee T.: No, you know I ain't supposed to get wet, but I got wet a lot of times because me and the doctor said not to get wet, but how many times I haven't gotten wet, so I ain't got no teeth in my head. You know who pulled him? Gottlieb: Who?

Lee T.: Who do you think? Gottlieb: I don't know.

Lee T.: I got a piece in there. I broke it off, but I got them pulled. I'm gonna find pliers and do my own thing with your [??]. My wife is right there pulling teeth. And I pulled this all out in March. It wouldn't come out on there but when I pulled, need up there. I could get a pair of pliers. You wouldn't have to do it. Yeah.

Gottlieb: What kind of work have you been doing in the South just before you came up here?

Lee T.: I told you, on the farm.

Gottlieb: You were farming yourself? You had your own place?

Lee T.: No, I was renting. I was-- I was renting half and half.

Gottlieb: Is that in the same part of South Carolina where you had grown up?

Lee T.: Yeah.

Gottlieb: Why did you decide to come up here?

Lee T.: Cause I got tired of it. [laughs]

Gottlieb: Had somebody told you about Braddock?

Lee T.: No. Well, I went down and got on and left and come to Petersburg, Virginia. From Petersburg, Virginia, now and got ready to come up here. Fellas wanted to come up here cause they hear about it and blab. You know what, the boys was working on that, on a little old streetcar line that Run from Petersburg and Richmond. Got ready to come up here. You know, they'd go to Petersburg or Richmond every payday. I want the same. A little change. Got ready to come up here and none of them had money to come. And I paved the way because I could stay at home, get me a box of sound [??]. And I was on the rise. And I have enough to do in a week to cook for myself. Staying in the, in the second house, you know, and paved the way up.

Lee T.: Now that's why I be here.

Gottlieb: Did you work for a while in Columbia, South Carolina, before you moved to Petersburg?

Lee T.: No, I didn't work. No, I was [??] There wasn;t getting nothing. But there's enough throughout the house for the heat that's [??].

Gottlieb: So you were married when you, uh, left South Carolina?

Lee T.: My wife died. His, his mom. Speaker3: Grandmother. Lee T.: Who? Speaker3: My grandmother. Lee T.: Who? Speaker3: Your wife. Lee T.: I wasn't talking about [??]. I know. Oh you're talking about my wife. Yeah. That was his grandmother.

Gottlieb: She. She died just before you left. Lee T.: Mhm, about--

Lee T.: About two years of like this.

Gottlieb: Did you try to keep on farming after she passed?

Lee T.: Yeah, one year. Then I give it up

Gottlieb: Had you been married to her very long at that time when she died?

Lee T.: Oh, pretty good.

Lee T.: Your keys. You like me. I tell you when you put your keys down. [audio cuts]. Everything's all right. Yeah. You sure? Uh huh. Satisfied? Speaker3: See you later. Lee T.: Okay.

Gottlieb: Did you-- did you know anybody up here when you first came up? Any friends?Lee T.: No. Gottlieb: Had. Had anybody told you about Pittsburgh? Well, why did you decide to come here instead of some other place? Lee T.: I don't know. I don't know. Gottlieb: You mentioned a group of other men that you helped to pay their way.

Lee T.: What was all this talking about-- about around Homestead belonging folks where you live. Long as he knows of me on Homestead. And I said, well, we'll find out how much he and I have gotten out from Richmond here. And so we come home and been around here.

Gottlieb: Uh, did you know at that time when you first came up that they were transporting men from Homestead up here? I mean, from from Richmond up to Homestead.

Lee T.: But now the next year, they transport.

Gottlieb: Were these other men also from South Carolina? Were the friends--

Lee T.: They were from different places. Some of them was out of Virginia. Atlanta. You know, whenever some of them was down and moves out.

Gottlieb: They'd all gotten up there to Petersburg.

Lee T.: Yeah. It's like, you know, it's like when you're all relying on the wrong fellow.

Gottlieb: Were you working on a streetcar there in Petersburg? Is that what you were working on? Lee T.: Mhm working on the car line. Gottlieb: What kind of work were you? Were you driving the car?

Lee T.: No, just working, man. Working on the track.

Gottlieb: When you came up here, where did you find a place to stay and how did you find a job?

Lee T.: Well now and then, uh, I stayed in Homestead in Beachwood, and oh there was a woman called Miss Brown, and I met up with a fella called [??] Rusty. He's dead now. He knew about pretty good stuff. He said, why don't I go to the mills to get a good job. He said, I'll take you down there. I went down to the mills, old man give me a job and put me on the railroads. And I was working right over here to cast on this. I stayed here almost, almost a year I think and I was cold working mornings it was frosty in the morning and I quit. And I quit. Man I went on to get retirement. Police said he wouldn't give me no payments

Lee T.: And I went on out and-- he said he wanted me out. And I went on out.

Lee T.: I was gave nothing. And-- all I got was time. I was out. I was out the Mill about a year and a half.

Lee T.: I'm guessing I can be wrong. I'll tell you right now for your troubles. I was out the Mill I reckkon about a year and a half but I don't know. It could have been longer. It could've not been that long. And I went to Westland [??] with a contractor at Homestead, Charlie Brown. And when this job was finished, I went to drive in to a big grey house for a fella named-- were man was-- he had Homewood, ain't you? Gottlieb: Yeah. Lee T.: I was driving for a fella in Homewood.

Lee T.: Yeah. And when I quit that I'd come back to the middle. Went to the open house and stayed there till I got fed up. And so, here I am now it.

Gottlieb: Was an open hearth in Edgar Thompson or over there in Homestead? Lee T.: Homestead. Gottlieb: Were you-- how long did you stay in that rooming house there with, uh, Mrs. Brown?

Lee T.: Now, I don't know. You know, I didn't put him down. I can't tell you that.

Gottlieb: Well, was it a half a year? A year or two years?

Lee T.: It was. This is nice as it could be to me at that time, which could have been worse or it could have been better.

Gottlieb: Were there a lot of other men there who were also up from the South?

Lee T.: Oh, wasn't but two of there.

Gottlieb: Uh huh. Did somebody recommend her to you? Is that how you found out?

Lee T.: Rusty [??] As I told you. Rusty.

Gottlieb: Um, you had children at the time you came up, didn't you? How long was it before you brought them up, or did they stay down?

Lee T.: I let them stay. They stayed down.

Gottlieb: Somebody taking care of them. Was--

Lee T.: The boy who was here right now. His mama was my daughter. She's dead. And they was well taken care of I would send money. They was well taken care of now.

Gottlieb: Was one of your sisters or brothers taking care of them. Lee T.: Who? Gottlieb: Who was one of your sisters or brothers taking care of him?

Lee T.: I had three. Now his mama was left there. Took care-- now my sister took care of his mom. What was up there. That's right. Took care of her. And the other two sisters took care. Marrying there, now. That was a long time ago.

Gottlieb: You had three children when you left. Did you ever get remarried when you were up here?

Lee T.: Yeah. My wife died at 72, 7:30 in the morning. Right here in this house. She didn't die in here. That's why we-- she lived right here in this house.

Lee T.: She died in the 94 Hospital. [unintelligible] My brother died in the 94 hospital. That hospital on-- on Forbes Street.

Gottlieb: McGee?

Lee T.: That isn't Mcgee. Gottlieb: I can't think of one on Forbes right now. Mercy? Lee T.: Mercy hospital.

Gottlieb: Did you uses to go back down to South Carolina?

Lee T.: No. Wasn't nothing down there I wanted.

Gottlieb: You never went back once you came up here?

Lee T.: No. What am I going back? What do I want down there?

Gottlieb: See your folks. Lee T.: They got no people down there. They come here. Gottlieb: Did they come up here?

Lee T.: Come up here. Yeah.

Gottlieb: Did any of them ever move up here? Stay? Lee T.: No. No.

Lee T.: The reason I got by this house, but I haven't since I been-- since I've been in Pennsylvania. A house on [??]. Up on [??]

Lee T.: I bought a house up here on the Hill. And the boy we raised, me and my wife raised the boy up. That raised the boy.

Lee T.: And give him their house up there. Let's give it to him. And he and his wife bust up. She living and now he died. And sold our place to raise the children. And she went to getting sort of sickly too, where she couldn't get in and out back in the old times of the Hill and snow on the ground and can't get up the Hill with a car. And so she just-- well, we'll get this house up to ruin and give it to them and they separate it. And the house got burnt down. So we bought the seven years before, you know, before we move this in here. I don't want no part of ten on different things.

Gottlieb: So you've owned three different houses. Lee T.: Mhm. Gottlieb: When did you move from Homestead? When they tore out the--

Lee T.: No, man. Let me see what I mean. I don't know. They moved. I don't know whether I moved-- been a long time. I don't remember, but I used to live up there.

Gottlieb: How did you like working up here in Pennsylvania compared to working on a farm?

Lee T.: Oh, all right. Anyway. Well, I can make a good living. That's why I like it. The living is pretty good. The living is pretty good.

Gottlieb: Did you think working in the steel mill suited you better than working outside, and you know, the fresh air? How people talk about the the country and how how it's better to work out there in the country than it is to work in a factory.

Lee T.: Well I said, in the mill ain't a bad place to work. Not for me it wasn't. Hard enough sometimes-- in the wintertime. If you're working inside you're all right. But in the summertime. You know, it's gonna be hot. Now.

Gottlieb: Uh, were you on the labor gang when you started there on the open Hearth?

Lee T.: Mhm. Yes.

Gottlieb: Did, did you move up from there? Lee T.: Yes. Gottlieb: What other, what other kind of jobs did they put you at.

Lee T.: Coal in the fire, third helper. Third helper.

Gottlieb: Did you get up to be a second helper ever?

Lee T.: Oh, yeah. Second helper.

Gottlieb: Did you join a church in Homestead? Lee T.: No. Gottlieb: Did you used to go to church in Homestead?

Lee T.: Yeah. Church every Sunday.

Gottlieb: Which church did you used to go to? Lee T.: Southern Baptist church. Gottlieb: Why did you join that one and not, let's say, Clark Memorial? Why did you join Second Baptist, Uh, instead of maybe Clark Memorial? If that is true. You know, there's two Baptist churches in, uh, in Homestead.

Lee T.: You know, they told me you preach one and the other more than the other.

Gottlieb: Right. Lee T.: You know, I know when I lived over there.

Lee T.: And now, some time I'll go up here to the church. Sometimes I'll go down to Braddock. I don't go to no particular church. Now this first one I think about. It's the one I go, whenever I go. Sometimes I don't go for none of them for about three or four. This a good one to go to in Braddock.

Gottlieb: What's the name of that one?

Lee T.: Reverend Heath. Heath or heath. Quiet old man. He's so nice, my God.

Gottlieb: Did you used to enjoy going to hear Reverend Milton speak? Lee T.: Yeah. You know him. Gottlieb: He died way before I was here.

Lee T.: Yeah, I went to him. Tall man. Good fella too.

Gottlieb: Were you up here during the 1919 strike? Steel strike.

Lee T.: 1919. I must be--

Lee T.: Oh, their strap was about old weed.

Gottlieb: When you came up?

Lee T.: Yeah. When you get old, you forget about things. Gottlieb: Yeah.

Gottlieb: You're doing pretty well.

Lee T.: Man, I get lost so quick when I play [unintelligible]. Ralph said his dad, oh, they got a cottage on the lake. Something like that. Ralph said they'd be going on up there. And the old man said, Ralph I think you run by the place? So we do the towing right up there and you run, Ralph. And I said he don't never see his brother. I towed it right up here. Ralph said you'd be going right the whole time he'd be the old man didn't think so. You know what I mean. I said, well when you get up there boys and you-- you'll get lost all through your house and get down at that filling station. Can you see that filling station right there? That's a long time. About two months ago. That's a man that was born. I come down there this morning and got lost right down there for about 20 minutes. I had to think about where I live. That's what happened to old people. You live long enough, you see. Gottlieb: I hope so.

Gottlieb: I hope I do live long enough to see.

Lee T.: Yeah. And don't know, man. That's where I got lost. Right there. That city, that day, you knew you would see us. I stopped to think about 15 minutes ago. I don't know why it'd come to me. Come on.

Gottlieb: Did you get laid off from the mill in the 30s during the Depression?

Lee T.: No. I went sometimes. One day a week-- two. You worked the day and go and get your money today.

Gottlieb: They used to pay you after every day then.

Lee T.: Mhm. Yeah. I've just raised someone standing there one time. So well then, and um, ask Mr. Brown. He'll know about some money. He went downtown to the man Downtown. And then this man called up then-- the head stuff, and, and then theEast then those fellas went to work this morning and come with get money that that eaten. Say you give it to them. If they work the work last night and want the money this morning you give it to them. And then on then we had a good time.

Gottlieb: Did you were you able to, uh, pick up any other kind of work?

Lee T.: No, I was out of work. Well, they would pick up nothing. When they would pick up nothing.

Gottlieb: So you just did. Did you used to go down to the mill every day to check and see if there was any work.

Lee T.: Well, no. They tell you when to come back. Gottlieb: Uh huh.

Gottlieb: How did you spend your time then, when you weren't working?

Lee T.: I was street lighting and towing, playing cards for food. Sometimes I was getting a peanut a game. Oh, about seven, eight of them. And none of us didn't have no bike or sometime. Sometimes couldn't give it to you back or nothing. Isn't that-- I tell you. Oh, thank God we all [??].

Gottlieb: Did you ever meet anybody in Homestead or in Braddock who was from the same part of South Carolina you came from?

Lee T.: Oh, a whole lot of people. A whole lot of em.

Gottlieb: Did you ever meet anybody that you had known down in South Carolina? Were you ever a member of any kind of fraternal organization or anything like that? Lee T.: What do you mean? Gottlieb: Like the Masons, the Oddfellows, The Elks? Lee T.: No.

Lee T.: [unintelligible]

Gottlieb: You were, you were a member of Knights of Pythias?

Lee T.: Yeah. All that's really [??]

Gottlieb: Why do you suppose that happened?

Lee T.: I don't know now. It just went down.