G., Joseph, November 26, 1973, tape 2, side 1

Peter Gottlieb: Was there-- the gang that you would [unintelligible]? Joseph G.: Oh yeah. They call me in that place here [unintelligible]. Gottlieb: Once-- your department were-- Joseph G.: Oh no. Because in chipping there were four men. Two men _______[??] I remember two other fellas had this job, try to offer it, buddy, [unintelligible]. Gottlieb: Were those white fellas who [unintelligible]? Joseph G.: Oh, they [unintelligible]

Joseph G.: Relationship is very good. That is, 49. [unintelligible] But I don't know about the other fellas.

Joseph G.: I can't teach them. More than anyone. Gottlieb: [unintelligible] Joseph G.: No, no. But I had a very good bond, too, with them. All the way through. He want the job done. He mad if you didn't. [unintelligible] Better than all the things.

Joseph G.: If you did something wrong, he ____[??] you. You did a good job, he commend you. He said to us one day, You ___[??], I know what you gonna do. Now when I leave here, you're gonna miss me. And we did. He worked until he was about 58. [unintelligible] Gottlieb: [unintelligible]?

Joseph G.: No, no, no. He is-- he born forgiver. But the man died the 14th of December. Course he had out that's when I came up as foreman. The man that came in an all me was an Englishman. Gottlieb: An Englishman? Joseph G.: Yeah. Man before him, the one, he-- he was American all the way.

Joseph G.: He said you guys gonna miss me when I leave. When I leave. Gottlieb: Did you like your job like after you [unintelligible]? Joseph G.: Oh yeah. I was afraid.

Joseph G.: They'd ______[??] Know how. Course that job was a very ____[??] job. [Unintelligible] Wasn't on the list, you see.

Joseph G.: See what happens is. You pick a place. [unintelligible] Today. Pick one up. You wait. Then get. 'Fore that's-- ____[??] today. Look the break. You never know how they're going to break. Well, now, here's a funny one.

Joseph G.: We picked up something like 30,000 pounds of steel, move that on the pile.

Joseph G.: And on the way back, we came back to the packing pile. After gettin' this job. Just came back [unintelligible]. Gottlieb: [unintelligible]? Joseph G.: [unintelligible] plates, just one of them. [unintelligible]

Gottlieb: Where-- where did you live in Homestead? [unintelligible]

Joseph G.: I first lived on Sixth Avenue. [unintelligible] Gottlieb: That's been one of my problems with talking to people, they'll talk about Second Avenue, Third Avenue, I heard that, when I come across the bridge now, I start at Eighth Avenue. Joseph G.: Yeah. Start with [??]

Gottlieb: But you go right down to the river. Joseph G.: What? Gottlieb: The town used to go right down to the river. Joseph G.: Right. Gottlieb: It's not there anymore. Joseph G.: Second Avenue, all that.

Joseph G.: But now, Sixth Avenue is a starting point now. Because they do have a five on Sixth Avenue. [unintelligible] Gottlieb: Was that, was that a boardinghouse? Joseph G.: Yeah. Gottlieb: Was it run by, uh, run by Black people?

Joseph G.: Yes. Gottlieb: Will you tell me

Gottlieb: Something about the boardinghouse? What kinds of rooms you were staying in and how many other men were there?

Joseph G.: They had rooms from. Well, put it this way. They have several beds, of course you have two kinds of beds. This group is working 7 to 3. Get up in the morning go to work. Now the rest of the seven crew coming in ____[??]. So there's always room, you know, you got out, so at this house where I live, she was telling me that she had at one time 58 men. When the mills were down and the new came, [unintelligible] She didn't want to rent to the roomers [unintelligible] Because back then the mills were boarding places ____[??] the men were sent down on Saturday night [unintelligible]. The problem was

Joseph G. Sunday night or off Monday night. Some time off. [unintelligible] So now they wouldn't be adequate today. Anytime you want to go to bed, was no place to sleep. Beds were all filled. [unintelligible]

Gottlieb: So it was very crowded. Joseph G.: Oh yes, always. The food, and [unintelligible]. They would deduct that from your pay, then that would be [unintelligible]. Gottlieb: When you would get a job in a mill, would they give you an address to go to, or they-- Joseph G.: Oh yes. Gottlieb: [simultaneous talking] [unintelligible] Joseph G.: Oh yes.

Gottlieb: As well as people who came on their own. Joseph G.: All for the ones that came on their own. They didn't do that. Just the transportation.

Gottlieb: So a person like you paid your money to go-- Joseph G.: Yeah not me. That's up to you.

Joseph G.: Now, you were coming up transportation, they would arrange for you here somewhere. You didn't have to worry about it. [unintelligible] They take it out of your pay. But that was [unintelligible]

Joseph G.: I remember when I was hired, the guy said, Now you come in tomorrow morning, we'll give lunch.

Joseph G.: And I said, Where will I get the lunch? He said, That's up to you. [unintelligible]

Gottlieb: How long did you live down on Sixth Avenue? Joseph G.: Oh, about a year. Just about a year. So then I-- Fact I went to some other

Joseph G.: Address in Homestead and finally moved to East Liberty. I stayed East Liberty for while, and then after that. Gottlieb: Were all these places boarding houses or places that you-- after you leave Sixth Avenue? Joseph G.: No, no, no. It was private rooms [??]

Gottlieb: So you would be living with another family? Joseph G.: Yeah. Because after I went-- $8.05 would be a room, room and board.

Joseph G.: But after I move from there, I pay five dollars a week for room. [unintelligible]

Gottlieb: How did you get to know these people?

Joseph G.: Oh, it was everything. Gottlieb: Oh, I see. Joseph G.: Yeah. Cause, you rent a room, you want that-- word of mouth. A lotta people there, a lotta houses, they're gone. Old enough to displace about ten thousand people [unintelligible]. And some wanted to come back. Now I would living in this place [unintelligible]. Of course, the steel work.

Joseph G. They made it possible for anyone [unintelligible] for houses out there. That's where I lived. I stayed there. [unintelligible]. About a year. [unintelligible] Finally one day I go to check another. ____[??] open income. [unintelligible] But here they owed me some money so I went down to talk to them. They said, you didn't talk to me. Said, [unintelligible].

Joseph G.: You paid according to earnings over there. But it's not at the steel mill, making [unintelligible] But at the end of every year they would ____[??] If you overpaid your rent you would get refund. [unintelligible] Well, here they were making this survey. [unintelligible]

Joseph G.: So I went to the office, I went to get paid.

Joseph G.: Didn't get it yet, but [unintelligible]. Higher rent and paid my printer rent and I got this notice the next day. [unintelligible] $96. [unintelligible] I went back to talk to them [unintelligible] Gottlieb: What kind of things did you like to do, after you were living in Homestead? During your off hours? [unintelligible]

Joseph G.: Well-- Oh very little. [unintelligible] To be fair, I. Back when I lived in the city, I lived in North Side. I lived in the North Hills. At that time, where the arena is now.

Joseph G.: And you can walk across the bridge. [unintelligible]

Joseph G. So we went over there one day and ____[??] and I don't remember, I had 52 cents _____[??]

Joseph G.: The other dime.

Joseph G.: Lined up at the end of the 88 line.A buddy of mine was working out there. Gottlieb: [unintelligible] Joseph G.: [unintelligible] And on the way back, I walked up Oliver Avenue. And it lifted on Oliver.

Joseph G.: I picked up the first. [unintelligible] Went on up to where I lived. [unintelligible]

Joseph G.: Before too long, I had 50 cents, I walk over to the neighborhood. [unintelligible]

Gottlieb: Did you ever go to the, uh, club that they have where they play live music? I know there was quite a few people--

Joseph G.: No, I didn't. Gottlieb: You didn't? Joseph G.: No, I didn't like it. No, I didn't like it. Gottlieb: Were there other places [unintelligible] in your neighborhood? Joseph G.: Oh yeah. Gottlieb: Were they real popular? Did you know a lot of people who liked to go there?

Joseph G.: Yeah. [unintelligible] I was there, the Leader House. Gottlieb: [unintelligible] Joseph G.: Yeah. Gottlieb: I know there was quite a few with music there. Joseph G.: Yeah. [unintelligible] Gottlieb: So all of these were places in Homestead. Joseph G.: At that time, yeah. Quite a few joints. Gottlieb: There was more places, the club _____[??] Joseph G.: Yeah, that was on McClure Street. There was the Hollywood Room on Sixth Avenue.

Gottlieb: Did these places get a lot of people? Joseph G.: Oh, ____[??] They was called the good old days. Gottlieb: From what other people have told me, Homestead was a pretty live place. Why do you imagine of all the places in Allegheny County Homestead was the [unintelligible]? Joseph G.: [unintelligible] They come here from all over. [unintelligible] We go away, say, where you from? I from Homestead. [unintelligible] There was anything around here. The steel mills were enormous down here. [unintelligible] Gottlieb: I heard that [unintelligible] Joseph G.: [unintelligible] Because it's still intact. See, Homestead is [unintelligible]

Gottlieb: Now when you talk about Homestead, are you thinking about the area down where the mills are down, they used to call the ward? Joseph G.: Yes. Up as far as Sixth Avenue. Far as Sixth Avenue. That went up to Sixth. Gottlieb: Did you learn anything at the mill, power or anything, wouldn't have wanted to not replace? [unintelligible] Joseph G.: [unintelligible]

Joseph G.: They'd have a ___[??] to use a crane. People that was, people-- [unintelligible]

Gottlieb: Did you used to ever watch the Homestead Grays play? Joseph G.: Yeah.

Joseph G.: That was quite a team back there. Oh. Quite a team. They came all-- ______[??] for the majors. They didn't make it, for the managers. Gottlieb: Do you remember a man back at that time who was in charge of helping Black people at the mill? Joseph G.: [[unintelligible] Yeah, he was a minister.

Joseph G.: Grover Nelson. Gottlieb: Can you tell me what his work involved after he got the folks from the South in here and settled down?

Joseph G.: Well, he was actually the welfare agent employed by the steel mill.

Joseph G.: He was. He was offered the other [??]

Joseph G.: You needed something and you couldn't find, you go to him. Fact, he was brought here for that purpose. He's often went on these excursions for the transportation. He went off and brought to Homestead. And for the steel workers, he was ____[??]. They would go down and ________[??] He'd ______________[??] go down with the train and everything. Gottlieb: You said they were bringing white workers in? Joseph G.: Oh yeah, oh yeah. But the majority were Black. Workers didn;t matter if you were ___________[??] [unintelligible]

Gottlieb Did most of the people from the South actually go to Grover Nelson for help when they needed it or did they [unintelligible]?

Joseph G.: Well, yes and no, because there were cases where I'm told they'd go to him. And he'd get [unintelligible]. if you went to her they didn't question it.

Joseph G.: You know I need some clothes, some food. Because I think she understood. [unintelligible]

Joseph G.: Apathetic. He wouldn't do what he could have. Of course after the [unintelligible] He was the foreman of the _____[??] Gottlieb: Was he looked upon as a boss, [unintelligible] or did Black people tend to see him as one of their own and a friend? Joseph G.: He was ____[??] I think. Course you had the ______[??] who wanted and he didn't.

Joseph G.: His hand wasn't tired [??]. [unintelligible]

Gottlieb: Did you join a church [??] after you came here? Joseph G.: Clark Memorial. Gottlieb: Clark Memorial? [unintelligible] Joseph G.: [unintelligible] Gottlieb: Had you thought of going to churches, at the same time, you would come to Homestead or [unintelligible] for the first year you started going? Joseph G.: [unintelligible]

Joseph G.: About a year. [unintelligible] Gottlieb: Did you belong to any clubs or, uh, fraternal bodies, or, [unintelligible]? Joseph G.: [unintelligible] Gottlieb: Were you involved in church work once _________[??] Joseph G.: Oh yeah. [unintelligible] I sang in the choir. [unintelligible] Gottlieb: [unintelligible] Joseph G.: [unintelligible] Gottlieb: [unintelligible]

Joseph G.: All right. Well, what happened was, a lot of times, there no one. What I mean [unintelligible] Gottlieb: [unintelligible] look at Homestead now and [unintelligible]

Joseph G.: Well, let's see what track we're on. [unintelligible]

Gottlieb: You know, I just. Well. Yeah, well.

Joseph G.: You know, as I said, as I said before. There's nobody here anymore. There seem to be [unintelligible] back then.

Joseph G.: Beginning, but that was a slow start. [unintelligible]

Joseph G.: It didn't pick up speed until about 1950, 52. [unintelligible] But before that time we didn't get a material. We got a job ___[??] [unintelligible]

Gottlieb: You were talking about [unintelligble] Did you ever used to go down to the YMCA, anything like that? Joseph G.: No. I'd've been there. But I wouldn't go down there. Gottlieb: You didn't regularly. Joseph G.: No. Gottlieb: 'Cause I've been in there, what kind of programs they had at the YMCA, offered for the people in [unintelligible]

Joseph G.: Yeah. Well, I understand now that they had quite a bit of activities back there. But I think what has happened today. Due to the acceptance in the other Y, it just now, they activities here. Because back then, you wasn't accepted at the ____[??] now you are. And that's a matter of having _______[??] Then before that, you had school. [unintelligible]

Gottlieb: Did you ever come in contact with anybody who ___________ [??] Joseph G.: No. Gottlieb: [unintelligible]. Well, that's about all the things that I had on my mind to ask you about. If there's anything that you have thought of while we've been talking that stands out in your mind that you remember you could tell me about, like what it was like to be in Homestead, a mill town,I'd love to hear it, but, uh. Otherwise, I don't know that.

Joseph G.: Well, I said, I don't know too much. Couldn't write it down. Gottlieb: Well.