F., Jonnie, April 23, 1976, tape 1, side 2

Jonnie F.: He say-- He say-- The man started on off, and say, you say, you know, I was talking to the police. He said, I don't give a goddamn what you told me your name is. As long as you start this bus. Johnny said, I thank God one colored one, they scared of [laughs].

Peter Gottlieb: Mm. Was it hard for you to go back and see the way that they were-- That they treated Black people?

Jonnie F.: [simultaneous talking] No. Didn't bother me at all. I didn't get none-- any of that, that didn't bother. Of course they weren't doing nothing to the people when I went back, they weren't doing nothing to 'em. You just want, uh, pain in the, then there wasn't doing anything, was when I was down there. Why-- Why would they bother me? They turn better [??]. I'm just making more and everything, makin' more sense.

Gottlieb: It-- didn't, they treat, uh, Black people there differently than they treat them here in Pennsylvania?

Jonnie F.: Well, I didn't see no difference, not much myself.

Jonnie F.: Because I-- you know, it's a little different.

Jonnie F.: When I-- when I tell you where I work. All I said I was crazy. I did as I pleased. He was nice to me. Gottlieb: Mhm. Jonnie F.: Mhm. And then a lot of them down there being nice to them, they just quit 'em. See? That's all. Unidentified speaker: What about that boy who shot him-- that boy, he had to shoot his mother that time? Slave boy, you said, uh, somebody told him that they just killed his mother because the master wanted to have sex with her-- Gottlieb: Oh yeah? Unidentified speaker: --and she-- she wouldn't. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Unidentified speaker: And the master went and made the boy shoot the woman. And somebody told him that he had just shot his mother. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Jonnie F.: Yeah, they, they, they kill them off down there, mhm, because, uh, uh, there was, uh, who's that-- No, don't tell me all about it. I don't know. The wife and-- the lady had some worries, you know, they didn't like colored people will say, white people. And, uh, and they take that lady out in the woods and she kill her and. Stir her up or do somethin' to her. And they told her husband, Come on down and look at that car there down there. When he went down, he-- he-- he didn't raise no Cain. He then said, well, y'all allow me to go back and get a sheet to wrap my wife up in. They said, Yeah. And when he come back, he drivin' and he killed a hundred

Jonnie F.: white people and got away. Gottlieb: Yeah. Jonnie F.: Mhm. Yeah. He was a killer and said that night he made a fire in his house and it was dark, and they was looking for him. Every time they want to put their feet in the house, he killed him. Gottlieb: Mhm. Jonnie F.: Mhm. And got away. Uh huh. Didn't allow him to say nothing. And I know-- Uh, my-- my cousin, she didn't want you to-- they have the house, stickin' up paper, now. Now, people in the country used the newspaper and things and stick it all over your house and make your house pretty. And this girl, she. She stayed in the white woman's house, and she put some paper on it. And the white lady come in and got smart. And this girl says to her, well, Bill on me, he told my-- my dad that he was going to lynch him. Mhm. My dad said the best thing you can do, Billy, is to make a move. Don't start no lynching because it's going to be trouble. And that's what he did. He moved and then they got one colored boy. I don't know what that boy did, y'all. And I ain't got to tell no lie. But I know they wanted to do something to him and did something to him.

Jonnie F.: And his brothers went up to place they call Cross Road and run all them white people off Cross Road. And Daddy says, they's gonna lynch him. And you know, and all the colored people stayed around their house that night. Oh, my father wanted to do something to him. Cause Papa say it's none of y'all gonna sit down here and let him run over you, they gon' beat your tails. So you just got to get up and get back at him. Gottlieb: Yeah. Jonnie F.: Well, that's what they did. And they says that night they sent a gang down the street, but they wouldn't come to the house. And so they got at them and shot the guns and they went on away. And the next night, nobody didn't come. But them people, they had their own home and thing and they moved and went to Oklahoma or somewhere and sold their home, they said, because they know they'd always be picking at them, you know, and they-- and that fall they left this and that was all. Because my daddy said all the time, he said, They don't bother me. That's what he said. He said, They don't bother me. He said, 'cause I ain't going to have no lawsuit or have my lawsuit and everything on the battleground.

Jonnie F.: He said, If any of them touch me, I'm going to kill him. Now, tell you, too, about my dad. My dad was kin to a lot of them, you know. Mhm. And so they didn't bother Papa. Papa ain't no saint [??]. And you saw them beat the till, to keep the till now. And Papa say-- Papa say, Yeah. The guys beat you til, as long as you let them. Mhm. But it's not like that no more 'cause the younger people don't take it like the older people do. They don't, they don't mess around. Gottlieb: Mhm. Jonnie F.: Mm-mm. Mm-mm. You know they'll, they'll get on and, and one white boy, colored boy, he beat one white man soon until the white, he beat him like a nice boy. And the white man joined church tomorrow night. [laughs] Oh yeah. That's, that's the way it is. It's much better and much different from what it used to be. And you know, another thing last always. Gottlieb: Mhm. Jonnie F.: And of course it's not, it's not quite equal but it's so much better than it had been. Gottlieb: Yeah. Jonnie F.: Mhm. And it's so much better because you know they used to get them on, see they stopped the colored and white going to school here, and they thought that, but now they go to school together. Gottlieb: Yeah. Jonnie F.: Mhm.

Gottlieb: When you went back for visits when you were living up here in Pennsylvania, did your relatives think that you were getting ahead being up here better than they were down there?

Jonnie F.: Yeah, they know it, they didn't thought it. They didn't have to think that, they know. Mhm. Yeah.

Gottlieb: How did they know it, by the way you dressed--

Jonnie F.: [simultaneous talking] They know it by the way I was.

Jonnie F.: 'Cause I have money. I give them money. Yeah. I put it on there. I gave money.

Jonnie F.: I tell my, my sister I got money, I have a grace cut [??]. Could pay $10 to have grace-- could find everything they want to eat. And give the kids money. But I don't have no, lotta money right now to be spend, getting more. I just give them money cuz they didn't knew I was. But of course they was better, and there they was doing better than I did when I was down there. Yeah. Mhm. Sure, sure. They was doing good. I thought you went to sleep.

Jonnie F.: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then, I was doing, I was doing good.

Gottlieb: Did they want to take that money from you or were they--

Jonnie F.: They need-- they showed it to me. Yeah. We won't take good money. Me neither. Yeah, sure. They want to take some.

Gottlieb: You know, some people are too proud.

Jonnie F.: Well, they ain't proud. I can give them this much. No they ain't too proud. They ain't too proud to take. Mm-mm. No. And I always did, a long time ago, give them money. 'Cause my husband never knows what I have. He-- He buy my ticket from-- Usually he, he give me about $35 to spend, and I have about $130. He wouldn't know I had it. [laughs] Yeah.

Gottlieb: Did you join a church up in Pittsburgh?

Jonnie F.: No, I joined a church down-- down South. I joined Hope Road [??] Alabama. And when I joined the church down there, I was knocked out with the Holy Ghost. I passed out, when I knew anything, my aunt had me. You understand? Now what-- Now how many more questions? Now-- Yeah. That's why I'm like I is. Gottlieb: Mhm. Jonnie F.: But I joined up here, you know I one day I was sick and I ooh I got happy, I got to be shouted and I went back to bed and, but I didn't join the church. But when I go to church you know, just signing me. Why don't you believe me, you join the church. But I wouldn't do it. And that night, when I joined the church. Oh, I see-- My ain't. I didn't have no desire. No, you go to morning preach [??] and let them pray. Well, I didn't want nobody to pray with me. I said, Lord, I did all I can do. And I kept feeling funny. I was intending to sit down, but in place of sitting down, I passed out. And when I come back and I said, Well, thank him. Well, thank him. Well, thank him I can feel it. Oh, uh, and when I-- and when I come to myself, I went on join the church. I know something had happened. Well, I prayed, I read on, and I went into a little house one night. Oh, I went in, you know, something like this. And I peeked up on a table. There's a Bible on the table, tags like I should have done. I peeked over like this and I seen my name on that Bible. I knew I was all right. Mhm. Oh, yeah, honey.

Jonnie F.: I tell them about myself, they be selling books. I said I don't want no books, I don't need to read because I got all I'm gon' gettin'. I try to be nice and treat people. Now some people just get up and say oh I ain't sin since I told him here, I said you tell a lie right now in the church because you done sin [laughs] but you don't have to live in sin. How many times in one day He'll forgive you for sin? Well, you don't have to live in it, see. But I know anybody who said they don't ever sin. They just telling a lie. You sin so quick, you know? And I like myself. I was coming down the street by the Social Security, and one white lady, she saw me. She was smiling and I got to her. She says, You wondered why I was smiling about, didn't you? I said, Yeah. She said, I know you's a good woman. She said, Look, like your face just lit up. When I looked at it, I said, I do the best I can. Best I can. Yeah, done that all. Don't give up do the best I can, because I tell him, you know, He said, we have to keep all them commandments because as much sin enter the heaven, as much as they cut in part, by that you got them goin' straight, you know. Gottlieb: Mhm. Jonnie F.: Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. Honey. Yes Lord. I do my best to keep-- all I have it, know they say, my grandchildren. I said that's what I live for, my grandchildren. I said, now what else is I got to live. Mhm. Because I get tired sometimes.

Gottlieb: Was there, was there a church that you went to regularly up here even though you didn't--

Jonnie F.: I went to Union Baptist but it's now-- it's on. Um, what is that-- Stanton. Negley. Unidentified speaker: Mayflower. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Jonnie F.: Mhm. Mhm.

Unidentified speaker: That church is over there a long time. Jonnie F.: Yeah. Mhm. Mhm.

Jonnie F.: Now. All that stuff you ask me, you won't time to-- I got tell you. How much more are you going to ask? I want to eat. I'm tired.