M., Joseph, November 16, 1973, tape 3, side 2

Joseph M.: Very smart. And then he got another brother named Bill. He has a drugstore on the corner of Franktown and Brushton. And of course, he got the drugstore. It didn't cost him a quarter, cost him one penny. He used to work for a fellow by the name of Crampton. And Crampton didn't have nobody but hisself and work. And this boy was so loyal to him that he fell in love with the Good family and he used to frequent over here, second house here, second door from here. And when he died, he went and bought drugstore. At that time, the drugstore were down on Wall Avenue. Well, then when they start that renovation down there, you know, or demolition or whatever you want to call it, they bought the boy's place and the boy bought this place up there on Brushton and Franktown. And so he got it, didn't cost him a quarter.

Peter Gottlieb: Were these wealthy family, wealthy Black families in Homestead like the Poseys and the Bells and Williams? Did they all belong to the same church? And did they all socialize together?

Joseph M.: Well, no, not all of them do a lot together. The Poseys belong to the Methodist Church. After Cap died, then they joined our church, see the Baptist church. And the Poseys, the Blakes and the Williams, They belong to the Methodist Church. Then after Cap Willi-- Cap Posey died, they joined other church. And now the Bells. They didn't belong-- They joined Saint Mary's, 'cause they were very light. And Frank Bell, he was a detective here, I guess, for over 50 years. Frank. And then Fred and George, it's a bunch of 'em-- knew all of them, other men. So that was it.

Gottlieb: Did these-- did these Black families who were in better circumstances, did they-- did they try to help the people who were coming in? The Black people coming in? Joseph M.: No, no.

Joseph M.: No, no. Not at all. Not at all. That's why I was telling you the other day about when we speak of integration, when we speak of things. For instance, I told you that the Black man had not received compensation for his contribution, I told you the other day. But that-- that's problematical, let's put it some other way. Now, that is-- You have to look at it from more than one aspect. Uh, you a millionaire. I'm a pauper. There's no way in the world I could compete with you. Where you can go to various functions that cost $1,000 a plate and you can go there and enjoy it and wouldn't miss the money. I couldn't even raise the thousand dollars. You see what I mean? So as a result, you got to look at it from-- from various standpoint. And so I guess I don't know. I guess that's it. Because now there was one time I told you about, I used to buy bonds and stocks, you know, and I tell you how I made money. Gottlieb: You did. Joseph M.: And, uh, uh, at that time, it was a couple of families here in Homestead. One family was down on the ward. I didn't even know the people. I took care of those people a year, close to a year, and I didn't even know them. I had never seen the woman. If I did, I didn't know who I was looking at. Of course, you can go down the street and see a lot of people.

Joseph M.: You see the people, you don't know who you looking at. But this woman lost her husband and she had some kids and she some-- like my mother. You know, that's why, I guess that's how I done it. She worked-- she worked herself sick tryin' to care of them. She had one boy, I think he was about 14 years old. And, uh. But, uh, she did work herself sick, and somehow it got to me. Someone told me about it. The fellow that run the store on Eighth Avenue by the name of Sam Power. So I dealt there, and so I went down and told him to take this woman an order each week and to charge it to my account. And I would pay him on payday. Which I did every payday I'd go in and pay him. And so I took care of that woman over a year. And I don't mean over a year. Close to a year. So it comes to start gettin' cold and she had to have coal. And so I just mentioned it in the mill. And I went around and I told the fellows about this woman's circumstances and I took up $68 and some-- something, White fellas and Colored fellas, not different. Was no difference there now. White people contribute more than the Black people because there's more of them. And I got $68 and I carried it down to her and I carried it down to her. And the fella that told me about her condition went with me because I didn't know the woman.

Joseph M.: And so when I got there, he said to her, he says, Look, Miss Hayes, said, Miss Hayes, she says, this is Mr. M. And he says, he said, now he the man that was helping you. And she said, Is this the man that had been sending me groceries every week? He said, Yes, this is him. The woman grabbed me around the neck and cried. She did. I just swelled up, you know, cause frankly, I felt good inside because I felt I'd done something that was worthy. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Joseph M.: And so then I gave her the $68 for her to buy some coal because I told her it was getting cold, and I figured she had to have some coal. And she grabbed me again and cried. And then she said to me, she said, Mr. M., she says, I have a boy. She said, he's 14 years old. She said, if I could get him in the mill, she said it'd be a lot of help to me. I said, Do you want him in the mill? She said, Yes. I said, Isn't he in school? She said, Yeah. I said, But do you want him in the mill? She said, Yeah. I said, If you want him in the mill, I'd get him in the mill. She said, okay. So I went down and took it up with my superintendent. Remember the one I tell you about that, he was superintendent.

Joseph M.: I took it up with him and he told me, he said, Well, said, we ought to be able to do something for her. So him and I, we went to the chairman of the school board, Dr. Lawson, and we, uh, laid the cards on the table. Then we had to have had to sign an affidavit and send it in to the State Board of Education. And they had to exempt the boy from school. And we done that. And they gave him a job in the mill full enough. That's as true as I'm talking to you. Well, I was-- I was educated [??]. And so that's-- that's where I got my kicks because I felt I had done something worthwhile. Well, now I could tell you about White fella who'd have done the same identical thing. I'd done it. But I don't like the idea, you know, using that word, I, I. It's like-- otherwise you personating it too much. I don't like it that way. But that was it. Gottlieb: Right. Joseph M.: And when you do things like that, that is a joy you get out of it that you can't-- other words, you don't get it by being wrapped up and handed over a counter, you know what I mean? It's one that you can't buy. Gottlieb: Yeah. Joseph M.: You can't buy that over a counter. That's one that comes some other way. Gottlieb: Right. Joseph M.: That was it. Gottlieb: Yeah. Joseph M.: And so that's where I get my kick. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Joseph M.: Mhm.

Gottlieb: You told me when I was here on Monday about the, the-- the center that that the company built and put Reverend Nelson in charge of to help the people who were coming in to work here. Joseph M.: [simultaneous talking] Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. Mhm. Gottlieb: Was there any other agencies in Homestead to help the migrants from the South during the years when they were coming in, like during the First World War in 1923? Joseph M.: No. Gottlieb: Were there any-- did-- did-- did the churches have any programs to help them? Joseph M.: No. No.

Joseph M.: The company done that, twofold. The company done that to prepare or to-- there's some recreation for them to satisfy them because they needed the labor. Gottlieb: Yeah. Joseph M.: And so they were doing it from a labor standpoint. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Joseph M.: And while they were doing it from a labor standpoint. I would be a recipient of the recreation. You see what I mean? And so out of all of that influx that came up here from the South in various parts of the country, it was a very small percentage of them that stayed. Very small percentage, not too many. I would venture to say it wasn't 25 that stayed. But that made this their home. Gottlieb: Yeah, I see. Joseph M.: Yeah.