R., Ed, June 10, 1976, tape 1, side 2

Ed R.: Peanuts and corn.

Unidentified Speaker: They raised a little tobacco, but not like they did in North Carolina. Ed R.: Yeah, well, they didn't--

Ed R.: They just made enough for themselves, mostly, you know. But when they started raising tobacco, that's when I left the farm. 'Cause there's too much work in tobacco.

Peter Gottlieb: People have told me about raising peanuts before, but-- and I-- and I've had some people tell me in quite good detail how you raise cotton, what kind of work is involved. But I've never heard about how people grow peanuts.

Ed R.: Well, peanuts, they're-- They're growed like almost-- that grows in the ground. A peanut grows in the ground just like a potato. Gottlieb: Oh. Ed R.: And, uh-- you-- There's two of them. It's the one they call the Spanish peanut. And the one they call the-- the Jimbo. Well, the Jimbo is the big one, see? And the small ones, they grows on a bunch. You used to have to shake them by hand. And the other ones, you could shake them by fork 'cause they spread. And, uh. And today-- Well, I won't tell you about today. Years ago, the way we had to kill our peanuts at that time, we plow down the row. We had women and men and everything come up. They shake them up by hand with a fork. And then they-- they put sticks in the ground about-- they was about five foot high, about ten, ten, 12 feet apart. Then you shot them peanuts around that till they dry. Then you brought in a-- what they call pea pickers. That's a machine, you know, that thrashes out the peanuts. 'Course, I remember when we didn't have them. When you had to pick them by hand, too. They had women to come pick the peanuts by hand. But, uh--

Gottlieb: But during your lifetime, this machine came in.

Ed R.: That machine come in during my lifetime, see. And, well, it still had a few women to pick seed peanuts. What they saying for the next year. 'Cause the machine probably would shatter them, you know, and crack them, crack the skin on 'em, then they're no good. And that's the way we raised the peanuts at that time.

Gottlieb: Did it take, um-- Are peanuts a crop that take a whole lot of work during the growing part of the season?

Ed R.: No, not in the process of growing. They-- you got to keep them grass. You know, you have to get keep the grass out of them. And you take-- we call it-- what we call weeding them, see. Well, that's when they grow up about that size, 'bout saucer size and then they pick the grass out and then every, maybe every 2 or 3 weeks you would go down with a plow, what the-- what they call a cultivator. That was a hickory with five prongs to it. You had four on each side and one in the back. And that kept that dirt loosened up around there, what-- kept it flat 'cause peanuts, when they grow up across the row like that, when they get ready to grow-- the peanuts to come on there, they come, they call them pegs. Well, that peg goes into the ground and then the peanut develop on this peg and-- and well, in July we would call that laying by, you know, you'd plow 'em while they about this big then. You-- You-- you take and throw the dirt up to 'em, you know, make sure there's enough dirt, you know, so the pegs go in the ground. Then you take another one, what they call a sweep. You go right down the middle of the row, and that would smooth that out flat, just like this table. Then the peanuts are ready to grow. Then you don't touch them no more then, don't tell them. But the last of September, 1st October. That's when we start the harvest there.

Gottlieb: How long would it take to harvest the-- the crop that your grandparents--

Ed R.: Oh-- Well, you take-- it's accordin' how big a farm you have, now you have about 5 or 6 horse farm, you would have maybe 15, 20 or 25 or 30 acres of peanuts and that will take you at least a month to get around to all of them, you know. Well, you take us farmers that didn't use-- didn't fool with tobacco, well, we had plenty of time to do it. But if you-- you raise tobacco, then you would that would cut in on your time. See, July and August was vacation time. Nobody do nothing then but ever go to church in August. And that's why they was hurried up to finish up everything in July. But when the ones had tobacco, tobacco took all that time up.

Gottlieb: Um, how big was your grandparents' farm? Was it about 25, 30 acres? Ed R.: No, I

Ed R.: was working for a family of people. You know the-- what they-- In my family, they just had a small farm. But I worked out. I made $0.50 a day. I made $0.50. I made $0.50 a day and board six days a week. Payday come, I had-- I had $3.

Gottlieb: So while you were living with your grandparents, you were working for somebody else?

Ed R.: Yeah, I worked for somebody else. See, I was-- Course, that was enough at home to take care of what those they had, you know? So I worked out. I made the money.

Gottlieb: Let me ask you some more about the circumstances under which you came to be living in the country when you were born in the city. Was it your parents' idea to do this?

Ed R.: No, I was born-- I was born in the country, but my parents were with the city.

Gottlieb: Why did they decide to move in there?

Ed R.: Well, they thought that was better. You know, they liked in the city, you know, but I didn't like no city. I like country.

Gottlieb: How old were you when they moved in there? Do you remember?

Ed R.: Oh, I was about 3 or 4 years old. I mean, I couldn't remember.

Gottlieb: So did you ever--

Ed R.: [simultaneous talking] I used to visit. I used to visit there, but I didn't-- I didn't like it.

Gottlieb: What-- What-- What about it didn't you care for?

Ed R.: Well, I just didn't like to be-- what you call-- hemmed up. See, like a country boy going into a city, that's just like putting him in a pasture. No, no-- Hourglass. Gottlieb: Yeah. Ed R.: When you're in the country, you just roam wherever you want to go. If you want to hunt, you want to fish, you go on anybody's farm. It didn't make no difference. Gottlieb: Mhm. Ed R.: It was never no objection.

Gottlieb: Well, you were too young when your parents first moved to Richmond to make up your mind about anything you wanted to do.

Ed R.: Well-- Well, she didn't take me-- Didn't want me to go out there at first [??] See, when I got old enough to go to school, then she wanted me to go there to go to school. And then the grandparents were too attached to me and they needed help 'cause they was old, you know? So I-- I want to stay with them. I could have had all kinds of education and so forth, that kind of thing. But you know how weak people is at that time. They figure all you needed to know how to count to 100 and know how to plow and chop peanuts and dig ditches and stuff like that. That's all I was interested in and knew how to work.

Gottlieb: Was that as much education as your grandparents felt you needed? Did they disagree with your parents in terms of that?

Ed R.: They never talked on education because none of them never had any. But they had the know how, but they didn't have no education. You take my grandfather. He was a first class carpenter. He could come to a house. You know how they build houses in the country. They-- they said two stories, a story and a jump. Well, in the Southern states, you can't dig cellars, you know. You dig cellars, the next thing you know, you got water. So they put 'em up on the block, build them up on blocks. And some of them would use brick for the-- what they call pillars, you know, and they'd build them up on that. And then they leave it about this high and high enough for you to crawl under 'cause the chickens would go in there and make nests. You know, you had to go in and get the eggs. And then sometime the hogs would have to have somewhere to sleep at, too. So they'd sleep under the house. Gottlieb: Dogs having puppies under there? Ed R.: Yeah, yeah. Under the house and everything. Yes, they ain't never--

Gottlieb: So your father was a carpenter and a farmer?

Ed R.: My grandfather. Gottlieb: Your grandfather. Ed R.: My grandfather. He-- He could read a square. You take a lot of kids write today, I bet you, can't read a square. And he would come to the house. You say, Well, I want this house so many feet wide. So many feet. How many room. And I don't want a two story. I want a story and a jump. Well, that's-- what they call a story and a jump. Well, that would be high enough to use as a bedroom, you know, but it wouldn't be high-- That's one jump lower than the two story.

Gottlieb: And he could set it up right then. Ed R.: Yeah.

Ed R.: And he could come down and figure it out. He could tell you exact how much lumber it would take to build this house. And I guess he wouldn't be two pieces over when he got through showing that before he built it. And he'll go and build that house. He mark it down on the paper. How many feet wide. How many feet high and how many studs are taken here, all that stuff. And in a week or so, he got your house built. And her grandfather-- No, her cousin-- Old man name [??] but that was your uncle, wasn't it? He would never-- he would never use nothing but a log house. I can remember just as good, we went out in the woods and cut the poles, see, cut the poles. Oh, maybe months before you use them, see, you'll cut them, skin the bark off them, lay 'em up and let them cure. So when you put them in the house, they won't warp, you know? And after doin' that, when you-- you've seen how they was building. Gottlieb: Uh, yeah. Ed R.: They cut a gash out and fit 'em in, you know. Gottlieb: So they fit together like-- Ed R.: Yeah. And then, uh-- then you chop this out, lay this one in there and you chop the other one. So they fit that way. When the time you fit them in, it wouldn't be a crack in one about that big.

Ed R.: If it did well then they, they went and got clay, after they got it built, they mixed that clay up just like they mixed cement today-- Gottlieb: Mhm. Ed R.: And they paste that in, in that-- in all them cracks. And when they got through and they used the-- go in the woods, they get that good splittin' pine, you know, and, and make the roof-- slabs, what we call slabs and they would lay them slabs up there and you could lay up there sometime and see the stars in there at night. You upstairs, you look around and see this big old crack over here. I don't care how hard it rain. You didn't get no-- you didn't-- never leaked in there. Never leaked, never used no power, nothing like that. And then if they had the time, they would go down by the-- what we call low ground. That's down by the river. That get the cypress tree, where you get the cypress, and then they'd make shingles. They make the shingles where-- I guess the shingles is about 12 foot long, made like a-- what you call-- a wedge. Gottlieb: [simultaneous talking] Wedge. Ed R.: And they put them in there and that would last you hundred years because every time it rained, they-- they expand. If there's any crack in there from the sun, by time it get good and wet that be them close them up before they start raining.

Gottlieb: I don't make houses like that today.

Ed R.: No. And then-- and in years to come, you can go right down there now, you can find some-- When I was a boy and I'm 72 years old, out through the country, you would find some of them old houses right now. Got moss over the top of them. They never leaked.

Gottlieb: Did you used to help with this kind of work? Putting up houses?

Ed R.: Oh, yeah. We used to help. That's the way they did. They'd help each other. Then everybody, then they started getting big shot. That was her uncle, you know. And he just didn't want nothing but a log house. But most of them started getting weatherboard in houses. See, they started to set up mills down there, you know, and cuttin' the lumber. But they never used lumber until it was cured. Today, you-- you go down there where the mills were-- I used to work in this mill, Gray Lumber Company, and they got every kind of modern thing you want to see. They'll take-- cut the tree down and cut the lumber out of the log, put it in a kiln, stack it up and put it in a kiln, turn the heat on. Gottlieb: Cure it out. Ed R.: Yeah, they cure it that way, but-- And you get your house built and a year later it will be poppin' off-- the shelf boards and stuff'll be poppin' off 'cause they didn't get the full cure. Gottlieb: Yeah. Ed R.: See. That was cured by sun, because her brother used to rack lumber. He knew what to do. You rack two boards and you put a space in there, just stack it up like that.

Gottlieb: Were these your-- your grandparents? Were these your father's parents or your mother's parents?

Ed R.: My mother's parents.

Gottlieb: Did you know your father's parents?

Ed R.: I didn't know my father's parents because they-- What they call farmers, they was from up way up in another county somewhere, you know. I think it was-- What's the name of that county, them up there outside of-- Unidentified speaker: Dinwiddie. Dinwiddie. Ed R.: [simultaneous talking] Dinwiddie County. Well, that was, I say, a hundred miles from where we live.

Gottlieb: And then they were considered farmers. Ed R.: Yeah. Gottlieb: Were you ever able to go to school down there? Ed R.: Oh, I

Ed R.: went to school. I went to school during-- between harvest time. Between harvest time. We always got about at least 5 or 6 months of school.

Gottlieb: For how many years did you--

Ed R.: Oh, I went up to the-- I went up to fourth grade.

Gottlieb: Was that about as much education as a boy living in that part of Virginia could get at that time?

Ed R.: Well, we had-- we had-- we had a lot of, quite a few of them went to college at that time, especially good farmers, you know, what they called good farmers, the ones that have a lot of money left over after he pay his bills. See-- See, that was something you had to do. You had to-- Everything went along on the book. You go to the store, you buy your groceries. Everything went on the book. And til the harvest time, when the harvest time come, you gotta sell your crop. The first thing you do, you pay your grocery bill. And then sometimes them guys got maybe a couple of thousand dollars left. Some of them, that's what they call a good farmer. But the-- the sharecropper, he got cheated. And he got cheated what they call a fourth. But you've done all the work. Gottlieb: But they gotta-- Ed R.: For the guy that own the farm. He took the fourth, but he got the biggest. Gottlieb: Yeah. Ed R.: 'Cause there was no expense out of his. You've done all the work. Took everything. You paid expenses for the front line and everything. Everything he got was clear.

Gottlieb: Were your parents renting, or did they own their place? Ed R.: Well, they

Ed R.: owned their own place, but I'm talking about the one that I worked for. Well, that was joining our farm there. But they wanted, after I got to be a big boy, 'bout 12 years old, they wanted to sell me some property, and I was stupid. I should have bought it. They always-- They always wanted you to have something of your own. You know, they talk about the South and white people, but they always want you to have something of your own. They always fix it so you could buy yourself a farm or buy yourself a mule or horse, whatever you want, and work for yourself. Gottlieb: Hm. Ed R.: But there's so many of them, you know. They figure that's a big thing. Now you get a couple of thousand dollars in debt and you ain't nothing but just a young man, you know? Well, that's the thing you should have done. But you didn't-- didn't have the know how and the background they didn't have the-- older people didn't have enough education and stuff to tell you what to do. Had quite a few of them done real good, you know. Now, you-- you go down through the South, you'd be surprised.

Gottlieb: That's what people have been telling me, that, uh-- Ed R.: You'd be surprised. Gottlieb: Some Black people are doing better down there than they are up here.

Ed R.: [simultaneous talk] Oh, yeah. Do you know Atlanta, Georgia, got more Black millionaires than any the state in the Union and they said that was the worst state in the world to live in. But I didn't bring it-- of course, the way I read it, I think Mississippi was the worst. But if they had a restaurant down the street and they said, Well, I don't want you in this restaurant, you open your own one over here. They would help you do it. Yeah, if they had one, you had one. That's what made-- made Black people have something. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Ed R.: 'Cause if they didn't want you around them. So they helped you get one something for yourself. Gottlieb: Yeah. Ed R.: So it wasn't that-- wasn't that bad after all. I don't think.

Gottlieb: And how many brothers and sisters did you have?

Gottlieb: You were the only one.

Ed R.: Yeah, I was a lone wolf. Still is. That's why I got so many of my own. [laughs] That's right.

Unidentified Speaker: That's my son's house. That's his home. That's a Spanish home. Wanted to play ball.

Gottlieb: That sure is nice.

Unidentified Speaker: That's in Fairburn, Georgia. Gottlieb: Mm. Unidentified Speaker: He headin' up here.

Ed R.: Yeah, he, uh.

Unidentified Speaker: I was just telling, I shouldn't have picked you.

Ed R.: He likes it. He likes it down there because he don't like cold weather.

Unidentified Speaker: [simultaneous talking] I been there now three times. This is Broadway.

Ed R.: Yeah. He like it, 'cause it's-- She wanted to go out and see the country part when we go down to visit, see. When I told her, I said I seen some of it. They still got the-- I call them huts with the-- with the fire chimney coming out through the window. [laughs]

Gottlieb: Is this where you come from in Virginia or down in--

Ed R.: No, oh, that's in, uh-- All that stuff 'bout growing out of Virginia. But that's down deep South. When you hit Virginia, you're not really got into the South yet.

Gottlieb: I know. I grew up in Virginia myself. Ed R.: It-- Gottlieb: And I never-- I never really properly considered myself a Southerner. But I come from Northern Virginia.

Unidentified Speaker: No, that was not be Southern--

Ed R.: No. You must have come up around Warrenton, Virginia. Back up in that section.

Gottlieb: Even-- even further north. Fairfax County. That's just outside of Washington, D.C..

Ed R.: Yeah. Fairfax. Unidentified Speaker: Oh, uh-huh. Ed R.: Yeah, I heard of it. Gottlieb: That's where I'm from. Ed R.: Well, you see, that's the way it is in Virginia. You know, you go by the counties. Now, we're from Sussex County.

Gottlieb: Well, what-- did you continue to work for $0.50 a day on this person's farm, right up until the time you left Virginia?

Ed R.: No, I-- after I got around 13 or 14, then I started to work for Gray Lumber Company as a water boy. I got a-- see, I think I started off 'bout $0.75 a day. And when I think-- when I quit, I was making about $2 a day.

Gottlieb: How long did you work there?

Ed R.: Oh, I worked there quite a while. And then I got tired of being the water boy and I worked up to the man's job. See, when I was 14, I was doing a man's job, loading cars, logs, and I worked there. And then I decided I wanted to work on the train. So I come back from there and worked from-- for Churchill Manufacturing Company. That was a company out of North Carolina, but they was up in Virginia 'cause we had a lot of hard woods. See, that's what they used for-- for making baskets and different things like that. So I worked for that company quite a while. Got fired. And-- course, I couldn't get up in the morning. And I stayed away about a week and he seen me and said, Come right, come on, come on back to work. And he give me another job. Then I decided to come up here when I was 17 years old. And I come up here because my mother was up here and she done married again. So she was living up here. So I come up here with her. My-- my grandparents, my grandmother was still living, but she was living with my aunt.

Gottlieb: Um, so all the time after you left, you know, being-- working on a farm, you worked for different kind of lumber companies?

Ed R.: Yeah, I worked with two great lumber company and tractor manufacturing company.

Gottlieb: Did you did you ever work yourself up into a very skilled type of job working for these companies?

Ed R.: Yeah, well, we always work up to a better job. Yeah, I started at one time tripping slabs. Well, that's-- That was kicking the slabs right from the mill as they peel the bark off, you know. And then I worked up to the-- got the job running the machine. Well, I was a good fireman. Then I went from that-- They wanted me to be a fireman. So then I started firin' the boiler.

Gottlieb: Does that mean just shoveling the coal in?

Ed R.: No such thing as coal. Only time you see, the coal was when-- When you went up by railroad somewhere, you never-- They never used no coal down there. No, the, uh-- in the city now, they used hard coal. That coal was-- I'm telling you, that was all, that was in blocks about that big. That was nice coal. I ain't seen no coal around here with nice coal like they had. So, uh. I, uh. Then they-- They moved somebody else in and see, when they cut them slabs off, they cut them in length. About 4 or 5ft in length. But I used them for firing the boiler with. All you got to do, if you get a good fire built, every time you're throw in a slab, you throw it with-- with the bark to the blade. Now, if you turn it over, you're going to choke the fire. But as long as you throw it in, that would dry it out fast enough to keep the steam up. Gottlieb: Mhm. Ed R.: Well, we had a good time. Then I didn't have to worry about snakes. I was raised in the country, but I still was scared of snakes.

Gottlieb: Um, tell me the circumstances under which your mother came up here.

Ed R.: Well, I don't know what she-- I don't know, I think-- From what I understand, she-- she met some fella in Richmond, you know, her and the old man broke up. And then they come up here and she said she married another guy, you know? And when I come up here, she still living here. And it wasn't too long 'fore he died. And then she married again and then he died. And then she still, still ended up single.

Gottlieb: Did she come up here to Braddock or was she living in the city in Pittsburgh?

Ed R.: Yeah. She come up to Braddock. She worked all the time.

Gottlieb: Had you visited them very often in Richmond or--

Ed R.: Oh, yeah. When I was living down there, I used to visit maybe once a year.

Gottlieb: Was it at a certain time of the year that you'd go into the city?

Ed R.: No, no. Most of the time when you didn't have no work to do, see, always-- maybe in the winter, you didn't do too much work in the wintertime. Most of the time like that, nobody go nowhere when working down.

Gottlieb: And did she ask you to come up here to Braddock?

Ed R.: Yeah, I, uh-- I wrote her and told her that I would like to come up and get a job, you know? And so I said one time, I'm gonna come up and start going back to school, come up and register to go to school at night, you know? Still, I didn't go. I just took up studying myself and I done a lot of reading. 'Cause I learned how to read and write real good. And now you take me, I can read most anything. But I never went no higher than fourth grade in school.

Gottlieb: So-- So it was your own desire to come up here? Not just your mother's?

Ed R.: No. No, it wasn't her desire, it was mine. Gottlieb: Uh huh.

Gottlieb: And you heard anything about Braddock or Pittsburgh?

Ed R.: Never. No more than a friend of mine. He was-- He was-- He'd come up and he'd come back to visit, see, and he was-- say, Oh, we making big money. He's in a coal mine, see. So I decide, me and my cousin, we decided, said, Well, we'll go up there, and-- in Brownsville, I think it was, and go up there and meet up with him and we'll go in the coal mine. So I come here to Braddock. And start asking about coal mines. And they said, well, you've got to go in the ground to get that. I said, Got to go where? He said, In the ground. I said, I think that's stupid. [laughs] I think that's stupid. Somebody's got to go down there in the dark hunting coal. So I said, Well, I'm going to look around a little bit. So I went up Adamsburg.

Gottlieb: I don't know where that is.

Ed R.: Huh. You know where Adamsburg, right up there-- That's up here-- Just out of Herminie. It's a coal mine, see. And I went up there and took a look, and I said, Now where are they going now? And that thing was going down. Boom! Just like dropping down. That's how fast that elevator was. He said, Well, they'll go down to maybe 1000ft and then they get off and then they go back up into-- into the mines and dig the coal out of there mine. And I said, Well, how are you going to see down there? He said, You see that little hickey on the top of the cap? He said, That give you enough light, enough light to see the rats. And I was scared of rats anyhow, see. And I said, they said, they got to have them rats in there to give you a warning. When you see the rat run, then you start running behind it 'cause he's running for safety. And I said, Well, deliver me from the coal mine. Then I come back and I thought I-- helped some white lady up there on Coal Avenue beat rugs. Next day I went down to McClintic-Marshall and got a job down there. Where-- That's a fabricating plant. Well, I worked there for close 15 years, I guess, or maybe more. And then I quit there, went to Westinghouse. I didn't like Westinghouse because I couldn't stand that _________[??] smell.

Ed R.: I couldn't stand that smell. Soon as I get down there in the evening, I was working 5:30 to 12, something like that, or 11-- something like that, and I couldn't stand that smell. So I come up there and I went to Carrie Furnace. I went to Carrie Furnace and I work there. You had to work outside, mostly, see, in the labor gang. So I work there about two months and I got-- they give me a foreman job. So I had a foreman job, and that was worse than digging co-- digging ditches. So I told my boss, I said, this-- this foreman job. I said, I thought this was supposed to be easy job. He said, All you do is see that them guys work. I said, That's the job. I said, That's the job. I said, And most of the time you don't see the guys. He said, Well, you're doing pretty good. Say, you're getting your work done. I said, Yeah, but I got to get out there and do it myself. Part of it. And he said, I don't want you doing nothing. Said, Don't take no pick and shovel for yourself. If one go way, follow them-- don't let him stay too long. I said, every time I go follow him, come back, two more gone. You got 15, 20 men. It's hard to keep up with them at night. Hard.

Unidentified Speaker: Then he went back to the-- [unintelligible]

Ed R.: [simultaneous talking] Yeah. Yeah. After I-- I got out in 1924, I think it was. I took a vacation, and I went back to Virginia and stayed a couple of weeks, and I met her, and that was it. [laughs] I met her, and then I come back and I went back to-- Bethlehem Steel, bought the company then. Then I went back there and started working and I worked up to driving rivets. And then when the war come along, I went to welding school and I learned to weld. And then when all that was over, I come back and start chipping. Well, that was getting-- getting on my nerves. So I told the guy that I need another job. He said, I got the job for you. So I never worked in that part of the shop. That was up in the-- in the receiving part of the shop, you know, where they manufacture everything for the building, like angles and plates and stuff like that. He said, I got a sure job. This man is bad off sick. And, uh, said, Every time we put somebody up there, he said, I have a problem of learning 'em how to cut different cuts, see. Now you got a shearing machine, got blades on both sides, right and left. Well, some material you got to have a right back cut and a left back cut.

Ed R.: But you got to go behind that machine to get that so that the fit different ways, you know. So they had them piles of stuff. I said, What's the matter with them? He said, That's all scrap. I said, Well, you show me how to cut 'em. And I said, and I'll get 'em. So I got behind my helper and I cut a-- cut a pile of them. The superintendent come around and, and, and the boss up in that shop. He said, I told you that boy could do that job. I told you he could do it. So I learned it in about a week. About a week time I learned that job. Um, so I worked there for quite a while. Someone get me in the back. You know, they start to-- sending them angles in 60 and 80 foot long, but they still-- You didn't have a one helpin. And you know, a angle, after you-- a certain length of time they're going to give you the rainbow. And sometime there was six by six by 7, 8. See. Well, that's a heavy angle. See, that was for the-- for the big girders, you know, these girders that you build bridges with.

Ed R.: And so I worked on that until I told him, I said, now this is getting too-- too heavy for me unless you want to get me a helper, either get me a helper or I'm going to quit. I'll fix the rollers, you know, them rollers, you know, they become flat, just like these railroad cars. You'll hear a train going along. You hear it going, Woop, woop, woop, woop. Well, that can develop a weakness in one side. See, it done, growed, done want to be a lump. When it goes over, it slaps instead of rolling. Gottlieb: Mhm. Ed R.: So after that the superintendent told me, he said, Oh, now that didn't belong in that shop. But I learned how to work under him, see. I used to work in number two shop and I had moved to number two shop and I had new superintendent there. But both of the superintendents, I got along with them very well because they helped me learn a lot of things, you know,'cause I learned to read blueprint too. And so they begged me not to quit, but I said, No, I'm going to get myself an easier job. So I went to a police department.

Unidentified Speaker: Well, you were weldin', you were weldin' too down there.

Ed R.: Yeah, that's what I said, I'd finished welding then. See that had-- after, after the war was over, that was abolished then, just a few regulars. In, uh, 1946. I went to the Braddock police department. And I worked there 23 years, I think 23 years as a regular, and I worked a couple of years as an extra. Altogether I put in about 30 years in police work. Gottlieb: Mm. Ed R.: Then I retired, mm, about 4 or 5 years ago. And I went to work for the county about three years-- Three years or four years, I worked for the county. 'Course, by 69 years old. That's when I completed my retirement.

Unidentified Speaker: Then you was a policeman in Kennywood for how many years?

Ed R.: Yeah, I worked in Kennywood. Unidentified Speaker: Part time. Ed R.: Yeah, I worked in-- well, I worked-- I worked two jobs, see. I worked in the regular police and then I worked in Kennywood too. Bad times. I worked for them for about three years. So I-- I like police work. I had a few close calls, but not-- Not-- nothing to be excited about. The only thing with police is been-- the most thing if a person wants to be a policeman is to go to some school and study psychology. That's the best thing in the world for police work. Throw your guns and stuff away and use psychology. That's the best. I could go down-- You can go and ask anybody you want in Braddock, Rankin, and even part of Pittsburgh about my police work. And they'll tell you I got my job done and never shot pistol. Some time I would shoot it up in the air, you know, just to see him run. Gottlieb: Yeah. Ed R.: But to shoot directly at somebody all them years, I never, never was tempted. One time I tempted to shoot at a guy and the gun wouldn't fire. So my lieutenant got on me about that, said, I bet you ain't got no shells in it. I work a long time before the chief caught up with me and see I didn't have no shells in my gun, and he said, How come you ain't got no shells in that gun? I said, Well, if I see something I need shell, I can put him in there.

Ed R.: He said, No, you won't. He said, You can put them in there now because sometimes you don't have time to do that. Gottlieb: Yeah. Ed R.: Sometimes the guy might have his already loaded, then I run up on him. And if I don't shoot at him, he probably won't shoot at me. Gottlieb: Yeah. Ed R.: So I never had no, no problem. No more than that one time, and then-- after the guy got away, I took the gun and held it to the ground. And I shot bam, bam, bam, bam. He said, Now you're wasting up your shells. I said, You said my gun was no good. That's a good gun. But the guy, we got him later. I got him later on because I seen what he looked like. And I said, you know, I tried to shoot you. He said, God wouldn't let you shoot me because he said them people that I took them shoes off of, they can buy more. Said, my kids in the bathroom [??]. He said, Well, I said, Well, I'm glad I didn't hit you.

Gottlieb: You said, when I was asking you why you didn't want to live in Richmond with your parents, that for you living in a city was like, you know, putting some livestock in a pasture. But you came up here and lived almost all your adult life.

Ed R.: Yeah, well, I was 17 when I came here. Gottlieb: Yeah. Ed R.: Yeah, I was 17 when I come here. But see, you take a country boy at that time, boy, he didn't like no, no city. Very few of them you could find would like a city.

Gottlieb: Well, the-- How did you get along up here? What did you think of Braddock?

Ed R.: I got along. I've done very well. I-- All I was after was saving my money, you know, because I never, never made no money. Amount to nothing before. I was making $3.90 a day here. And then you work piecework in brick work, all piecework. And if you-- if you work hard, you can make yourself $5 or $6 a day.

Ed R.: So we-- I saved up a little money, til I went back home.

Ed R.: I met her and and we courted around through mail for about two, three years. And then in 1925, September 30th, we got married. Well, she was real young. She was only about 16, a little bit over 16. And then when she was 18, she had a little boy. And that wasn't no stop then til she had nine of them, six boys and three girls, which we was very successful with. I was working hard, got 'em the most-- I think there was-- How many go to college, there were three? Unidentified speaker: [unintelligible] Ed R.: Three of them went to college. And then my daughter, she went to-- one of my oldest daughters, she went to business, went into business school over here on the North Side somewhere. So she got a pretty good job. She worked for the Catholic Diocese. Then my oldest boy, he went to the Navy when he come out of high school. He went back-- He-- he went to Philadelphia. And my wife was over in Philadelphia at the time. And he had problems with girls, you know, kind of a handsome boy. You know, every time he turned around and some girl wanted to have him arrested for some occasion. Never had no trouble with no boys, mostly all girls. So she said-- he called her and she said, get the first thing smoking.

Ed R.: Comin' towards Philadelphia. Said, you come on up here with me. So she was up there when her mother was sick. She went on up there with her. And so when her mother died, the fella was married, her sister was his brother. And he told me he'd had trouble getting a job. He said, You bet. He said, Yeah. He said, You go down to the Navy Yard tomorrow. He went down to the Navy Yard and right away he got a job and they put him to learn him how to weld. He wanted to do everything I'd done he wanted to do. So he started into welding and he failed a test. And I told him, I said, Don't stop at that. I said, Ain't no weldin' schools in Philadelphia? He said, Yeah. I said, go to one, go to one till you finish. I said, Don't never stop doing nothing that you want to do. So he went on there and he learned and he passed the test and next thing I know he's working two jobs and he's making about 200 a week or more. So now he's a successful businessman. They own about three buildings. They make more money than know what to do with it. So I told him to send some of it this way. [laughs] Gottlieb: Yeah.

Gottlieb: Well, what did you think of Braddock when you first saw it?

Ed R.: Well, I'll tell you, I didn't think too much of it. Looked like a bum looking place to me.

Gottlieb: Yeah, why was that?

Ed R.: So I got off 7:00 in the morning, 1923. At 7:00 in the morning. I got off the train down there being on station and I said, This Braddock? He said, Yeah, this is it. I said, Well, where the city? He said, This is it. That was my mother's other husband. She said, This is it. Said, I don't think I'm going to like this place. But after I got here and started working and making money. See, that's what I wanted to do more than anything else. I, uh, come to like it pretty well, you know? Gottlieb: Yeah.

Gottlieb: Did you have any intentions of going back to Virginia?

Ed R.: I did once. And went back. Gottlieb: Only once, in your whole time? Ed R.: Yeah, one time. And I went back. I was mostly homesick, I think. I went back home and stayed there. And the money was so small. I had a problem trying to make enough money to get back here. So I went to a fellow that my grandmother was a midwife, you know, and she delivered all his babies. His wife had about 8 or 10 kids too. So I went to him. I said, Mr. Dickerson, I said, I got to get back up to my job. I said, And I ain't got enough money. I mail it back to you. You sure, boy, you sure boy, you sure? He-- that's the way he talk-- everything he said was, said it twice. He said, how much you want? How much you want? How much you want? And-- And I told him I don't know whether it was $25 or $30. He give me the money and I left, and I didn't never go back no more. When I went back again, I had enough money to come back with. Gottlieb: Yeah.

Gottlieb: Is that the time that you met your-- Your present wife that same day?

Ed R.: No, I-- I didn't meet her at that time, so I went back about-- in 1924, I think it was. 1924. Yeah, around 1924. And that's when I met her. See, my boyfriend come to the house, told me, said, come on, go with me down and see my girl. So I went so him, and him and her brother, they said, Don't you want a drink? I said, Drink what? He said, Some moonshine. I said, No, I don't want nothin to drink. I never did care for drink too much. So while they started drinking and she looked so good, you know, and I said, Sir, I'm goin'-- to I'm goin' throw-- throw a line out for her. So I throwed the line out there and she bit at it. [laughs] So I started giving her my line and next thing I know, she was just much in love with me as I was her.

Gottlieb: Had you known her people when you were growing--?

Ed R.: [simultaneous talking] Yeah, I know her people all my life. Yeah. Was always-- I used to go see her oldest sister, and I thought she was too young for me, you know? And my cousin said, What are you talking about? A man supposed to be older than the girl. I said, Yeah, but I'm about four, 5 or 6 years older. And he said, That don't make no difference. I said, She's prettier than the other one. I said, Well, I'll give it a try. So here it is. Now this coming September will be 51 years. Gottlieb: Mm. Okay. Ed R.: So we all-- all our kids is doing real good. So we didn't have nothing, nothing to complain about. Never had to go to jail to get none of them. Me and her worked together to raise them kids--