T., John, November 1 and 23, 1976, tape 3, side 2

John T.: Welfare, you know. So I march 275 from Fleet Street and Braddock down to the welfare office. Wait until the White boy, Sammy Roy. He had a little club in Rankin. So's he come down to visit my club one night, and I was doing so well they all just joined my club, made me a head of the whole thing, and I marched them all down there. Say, we're not going out until I get emergency check, I told that woman at the desk who I was. And I wanted emergency check for all of these folks. And to the one girl had, her feet were the cold, wrapped up. Said she'd been there now three times trying to get some shoes. Couldn't get them.

John T.: After seeing the superintendent, I said, All ready together. She said, me? I said, I'm not going there tell I wanna see superintendent, so she went in and told the superintendent who I was. Send him in. So I went in and talked with him, told 'em who I was, what I wanted.

John T.: Says, Reverend, but we have to check them all. I said I've already checked them. Every one of them hungry.

John T.: Ain't got nothin'. I said, I got a girl out here with her feet wrapped up in rags. She been down here several times. You wouldn't give her no shoes. She couldn't get no shoes.

John T.: I said I want emergency check. If you give them a check, you'll check them. Otherwise you ain't going to check them. They still won't get nothing. I'm here to give everyone check. Give 'em somethin' to eat. And the next week they check them folks and then put them on the welfare. Then it took me-- sometimes if I could get out of bed in the morning, before working, then I get ready to go to work, my phone rings. I don't get to know. We need this. We need to get on the welfare, we don't got nothing. I say, go down there to the welfare office. Tell them Reverend John T. sent you down. Well then they'd put 'em on. I put every one of them on there. And the thing was now them workers. You had them cards. You know, if you had so many family, you supposed to get so much for each one, you know? And them workers would carry $2 and $3. Oh, I'd go down there and I could go down there and pull them cards just walking through them tunnels off and pull them cards. You hadn't said you want, said you want-- They got so many families and the support board be getting so much, why they cut it. And she didn't know they was cuttin' it, see, and she fired two of them. Call them workers in there and later sold the rest. You finally got rid of her. I'm so glad that was I didn't know what to do. Got rid of her and I got them all getting their, certain amount of money welfare they supposed to get and they all got good.

John T.: Well, I was working every day. I didn't need it. I was helping my folks. Well after I got the belly fully, well, they could bleed, they could get more. He could get rid of me, put somebody else head, you know, he done got on their feet. So I come in one night and they was going to have a meeting up there at the school. This White kid. They was gonna have a meetin' up there. And he's going for more. But he told, I'm not going to school. He couldn't have a meeting in there. He was going in there now and he paid tax, he own property. He was going in there. They send, the town, got the sheriffs and everything else. And when the school, neighbors send to school, you know, the lights and everything, he went in and broke the door down and they had a meeting and man, you talking about beating head. They beat them, locked him up. I got off the car, was working night then got off the car 11:30, and some of them are down there. I know what was going on. I heard it and they tell me about it. I said, What's happened? I said, Well, now it is up to you all to get what you can get. I said, I got you all on the welfare and got what belongs to you, know? And I said, I know nobody said to get rid of me.

John T.: You could get more. And I get all you can get. I'm through with it. I said, I don't need nothing because I'm working every day. I was trying to help you folks. Man, they come just cutting him and doing everything with him then. I said, Well, now you folks satisfied? You getting hungry again? That's what you want, what you want. But I done so much for my folks and I had to answer-- I'd get in with the brothers and we'd have our meeting at churches. You see, different churches would have our meetings and the various folks would meet me there and they would-- we were doing good. Puttin' folks on a better path. The White people was bringing clothes for them, you know, and everything. They help out and they were getting along good. Well, I started off as, of course it's getting there, but that didn't need none for myself because I was working and I had one preacher. He was pastor of New Hope then. My wife's church, Reverend Gooch. He wouldn't do nothing for you, though. He could beat you out or something. He could try and get you on the welfare, but you gotta give him $2 or $3 to do it, you see. So when he heard, I'd put all them folks on welfare. Well, I preached at my church that Sunday night. He now-- Reverend wants you to preach tonight. I preached. Then Monday morning, he went down there and poke his tongue with what I was doing.

John T.: He went down there and told the superintendent, that-- that fella can't help nobody, he ain't fittin' to

John T.: do nothing for nobody. He not allowed in the pulpit in his own church. He told him I ______[??]. In time they called me up and told me to come down. I went down, said Reverend, the Reverend Gooch come down here, your pastor. Said you weren't fit to lead nobody, that you weren't allowed in the pulpit in your own church. I said this, Reverend Gooch tell you that? Yeah. I said.

John T.: Turn to the phone, call him and asked him why did he ask me to preach last night? I preached in my church last night for him and asked him if I wasn't fitting to be in pulpit, why he let me come in there and preach and I give him the chairman of the Deacon Board.

John T.: And some of the trustees name. I said, Call them and ask them how I stand in my church. And she said, Reverend, say, that man tell the bigger lies. I said, Well, call him up. I give you the phone number. You call him and ask him, Didn't I preach in church Sunday last night? And if I would, he let me preach if I wouldn't sit and leave him. He says if he that big a lie, I don't want never see him no more in life. So when I come out of there out of that welfare, I met him at the front of the bank that call and I said, Reverend, why did you go down there and tell that woman I wasn't fit to lead nobody, help nobody. Why Dr. John T., I was just telling the folks what wonderful work you were doing for the poor [laughs]. Gottlieb: He was just two faced as he could be. John T.: I said, you the biggest liar ever lived. I'm not kidding. He didn't go back down there anymore. No. He stayed with-- now if anything he'd do for you, you had to give him something. Well, you know, the folks is on him trying to get on the welfare and all, and he is paying them $200 a month, parsin' everything.

John T.: And he ought to be willing to help the folks. They was his members and they-- helpin' them is helping himself. He wanted money. The only work I have done-- my wife used to tell me, you don't get credit for what you do. I said, Yes, I do. I said, Every good deed I do in this world, God-- double pays me for it. I said, Lord, paying for everything I do. I said, God to fix it so I'm working. I said, You ain't on the welfare, you don't need it. And I said, How much more can He can bless me than that? I'm working, taking care of you and taking care of the folks. I said, everything you do in the world for folks. I said, you get paid for it. I said, God double paid you for every good deed you do. I said, Now both of us, you ain't-- no well woman, but you got pretty good health and I got good health. You're not under the care of the doctor all the time. And I said, You got place to eat and sleep. That's that much more. Lord bless me. I say, now he's kicking these folks out, cutting the lights off and everything. They cut out now. Says, we well blessed.

John T.: Well, you right. She's right. I said I know I'm right. But I got enjoyment to know that that was helpin' folks. Gottlieb: Yeah. John T.: And I-- I can help anybody, and I don't turn nobody down. Nanny used to tell me you ain't never learned how to say no. Anybody come with a pitiful tail? You help them. I get paid for it. All right. John Braddock. And Rankin says I bring you. I got owed $500. People owe me. I ain't going to never get it. Some of them I let money. Let 'em have money, owe them all over again. I get paid for it.

Gottlieb: Well, I can't think of anything else to ask you about. Now, I've been talking to you for so long, I feel a bit guilty already. But you're such a busy man. I'm afraid if I left this house today, I'd never be able to come back.

John T.: [laughs] I'll be happy to talk to you any time.

Gottlieb: Well, I can't. I think I've asked you all the questions I had on my mind anyhow. So let me just turn the machine off. [recording ends]