Udin, Sala, August 12, 1999, tape 1, side 2

Michael Snow: Before I turned over the tape that you ran away to New York City? Sala Udin: Yeah, when I was 16. Um, having dropped out of two high schools [laughs] by the age of 16, and I went to New York to, uh, to find a job. Um, to try to do something with my life-- to begin my adulthood, really, is what I was doing. What I thought I was doing. Um-- fortunately my mother had two sisters who lived in New York, and they snatched me from the lion's jaw and moved me in with them. Um, they were both nurses, so they had a middle class income, um and they had, one of them had a son, the other had no children. They owned a home, and they brought me in as one of their children. Their son was my age. He was in school, and because he was the only son of two Middle class nurses, he had everything he needed in school. He was like the kids at Schenley. Snow: Hmm. Udin: Only this time I went to school with him, so I became one of them.

Snow: Oh, I see.

Udin: And this time I was accepted, socially, because he was very popular. And-- once I got socially accepted, I was inspired to apply myself academically, and next thing I knew I was on the honor roll, and graduated from high school. [I] Played sports-- and did well. That's where I graduated from high school on Staten Island, New York.

Snow: That's fantastic. Before I forget. What were your parents names? Udin: My mother is Mary Sutton.

Udin: Howze. And my father was William Howze.

Snow: How are you doing for time?

Udin: We're getting close. I got a little bit more time. We can-- I have a little bit of flex time.

Snow: I was wondering if you had any military experience. Udin: No. Snow: And what were your plans after graduating from high school?

Udin: I had talked myself into, um, mortuary school. Snow: Okay. Udin: When I was a kid, I learned early that-- first of all, the the best dressed man in the neighborhood was the undertaker, and he always had a big, beautiful, black Cadillac. I didn't realize at the time it was a hearse-- a hearse [laughter] but, he always had a beautiful black car, and I would tell people that I wanted to be an undertaker because that's what he was, and I didn't have a clue what the hell undertakers did, but I know he dressed fine and his car was always polished, and I wanted to be like that. And, so I learned that-- when I told people that I wanted to be an undertaker, I always got a reaction. I got attention, um, and so I kept doing it, and so since I didn't have a clue when I was in school, high school, as to what I wanted to be when I grew up, I would-- whenever people ask you that constant question, Snow: Yes. Udin: what are you going to be when you grow up, I just say I want to be an undertaker, and they'd say, Wow.

Udin: You want to be an undertaker? [unintelligible] wants to be an undertaker. [unintelligible] Undertaker.

Udin: So I loved that reaction that I always got, so I kept doing it. And when my aunts asked me, What do you want to be? I want to be undertaker. And so when I graduated from school, lo and behold, my aunt brought this application package. It was for undertaker school. And so I had said it so much, and they had gone out of their way to prepare to pay the tuition and everything.

Udin: That I had to go. So I went to undertaker school, in New York. It was called the McAllister Academy of Business and Mortuary Science. And, that's where I did my college work. And I did very well. Uh, surprisingly, I liked it. I liked the science courses that were connected to it-- the chemistry, the biology,the physiology that we had to study. I liked the, um, embalming, and learning how to do that, and going to the morgue and embalming John Doe's and Jane Doe's-- unclaimed bodies-- New York has a lot of them. Snow: Yes. Udin: And I learned how to be an undertaker. And I went to-- I didn't quite finish school, and there was this summer I was doing this internship, and, um, at a funeral home in Harlem called Douglass Funeral Home, and I got to see a side, the business side of undertaking at work. And I decided, my God, I don't want to do this. I don't want to-- exploit grief like this. Now, it may have been that this particular undertaker, um, was not like all the rest, maybe he was different, but I certainly-- it was my perception that they just-- they would just figure out how much money people had to spend and that's what they were going to get them to spend on the funeral.

Snow: That's about the same time as that famous exposé came out, The American Way of Death.

Udin: Probably so. Yes.

Snow: So it sounds like it may have been par for the course at that time.

udin Well, I said this is not for me. I don't want to do this. And I dropped out of school. Um, I started working. [I] worked at a post office. And, um, then came home to Pittsburgh for a summer-- for vacation rather during the summer, and wanted to go out on a date with this young lady I was pursuing. And she said she would go to the movies with me, but I first had to meet her at this this ev-- this speaking engagement that she was going to, and then we could go to the movie afterwards. So I said, okay, you know, I'll meet you at the speaking engagement. I didn't care anything about the speaking engagement, but, you know, I could pretend if it helped me with the date.[laughter] So, I was in the basement of the church, and waiting for her and waiting for the program to start. And I was smoking. And, um, I was asking myself, I wonder if I could smoke. I mean, I know this is a church, but I am in the basement, so maybe it would be okay. And a guy came up and asked me, do you know if it's okay to smoke in here? So I said, yeah, I was thinking about the same thing. I said, We better step outside just in case it's not okay. So we started talking, getting acquainted. Um, he asked me what brought me there. I said, man I'm trying to get out on a date [laughter] and she wants me to listen to some knucklehead give a speech.

Udin: So I don't know what-- you know that's what I'm doing here. So he said, I can dig it. So we kept smoking and talking eventually. She came and we went inside and we all sat down together, [we] were still talking. Program starts, the MC gets up and says, Ladies and gentlemen, we have a really special treat for you this evening. We have a civil rights worker from Mississippi who is here with us this evening. Um, He's on a recruiting trip up north and he wants to tell us about his experience and to raise money for the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and-- um, and to recruit volunteers to work this summer in the South. And-- ladies and gentleman I'd like to introduce Mr. Don Hamer and the guy who I call the knucklehead, who's sitting right next to me stood up. I said, Oh no, I was so embarrassed. But he just smiled. He got a kick out of it, and he went up to the front of the room and shared some of the things that they were experiencing in Mississippi. Now, all this time I had been living in New York. I spent most of my time in Harlem. I went to school in Staten Island, but I hung out in Harlem. Snow: Okay. Udin: And I listened a lot to this guy who was a step ladder preacher, where he'd be on the back of a pickup truck, and he was the most articulate, piercing speaker I ever heard in my life.

Udin: They called him Big Red, and we would-- every Saturday the task would be, let's drive around and find out where Big Red is speaking. So Malcolm had made me a kind of a militant in New York, had made me a kind of a militant during those times. This would be 63, 64, 65. Um, so I thought I was pretty knowledgeable and articulate on militant civil rights issues. Um, but when I heard this guy here in Pittsburgh tell me what was going on in Mississippi. I said, wait a minute, man. Here's a White guy, in a Black church, talking to you about your people and how-- what he's doing to help your people in the South and you're sitting out in the goddamn audience. What's wrong with this picture? I knew what was wrong with it. And three weeks later, I was on a Greyhound bus on my way to Mississippi. Snow: Wow. Udin: Um. I told him at the end of that session,that speech. I said I'm coming to Mississippi. He said, Yeah, yeah, a lot of people told me that. I'll believe it when I see it. I said, You'll see. Give me your information, because I'm coming. So he said, be-- you'd better be sure you know what you're getting into, because it's no picnic down there. Snow: I doubt. Udin: I could handle myself, and I'm not concerned about that, um, and sure enough, three weeks later, I was there.

Snow: And you did this on your own. It wasn't like Freedom Summer or would that--

Udin: This was the-- this was the Freedom Summer of 65. Snow: Okay.

Udin: Yes. Snow: So did you go through the training at Oberlin and all of that?

Udin: No, I got-- I got trained by fire. [laughter] I was baptized by fire, right in Mississippi the first night I got there. That's the story that you can read about it in the-- In Pittsburgh article if you've seen it. A detailed-- my first night arriving in Mississippi. Snow: Okay. Udin: Um, what a frightening experience that was, but I was-- he recruited me for the summer and I'd agreed to stay the summer and then I was going back to New York. Snow: Okay. Udin: Um, but that summer lasted five years, and at that time-- during that time, that experience would answer the question, What are you going to be when you grow up? I found that answer. There. In Mississippi. In the jail cells, um, in the fields where we were organizing farm workers. Getting our asses kicked by the clan. That's where I learned who I was going to be and what I was going to be when I grew up, and I grew up, there, in Mississippi, and became a lifelong Freedom Fighter. And that's my profession now. That's my mission. That's my identity. That's who I am and what I am,and wherever I go, whatever job I have, it is somehow connected to that. Devoting my whole life to public service and to justice and freedom. That's-- I found the answer, It wasn't being an undertaker. [laughter] That was the answer.

Snow: I think that's probably a good place to stop for now, so that you're not late.

Udin: Yes, thank you.