Patrick, Dr. Leroy, December 3, 1973, tape 2, side 2

Speaker1: Each church that we went to.

Speaker1: Each ethnic neighborhood that we went to, there was always a church for that ethnic group. He was telling how the enrollment had declined and the minister seemed so, so secretive, and collective, you know, like the water holding them all together. And I--

Speaker3: I think even more than-- even more than that, than the point you're making, that it's a new movement for ethnic groups. I don't even think that that's true, because I think ethnic groups, by virtue of the fact that they were all-- when they came to this country, were all in the same area, and especially the older generations, and not so much with the newer generations, want to retain their identities, but the younger generations that want assimilation. And when you say, well, is that good or is that bad, well, I just wonder because don't you lose a lot, too, in your life, in your own lifestyle, your own life's meaning, if you lose some of your ethnic background? True, even for the Black people who are now at the place where they're identifying their own good things in their life to be proud of. The things that they are doing in effect, what has been done by, say, Jews for years and years have-- don't dare marry out of the religion. And it's a bad if you're dating somebody that's not Jewish and keep-- you know, retain those strong ties. Well that's not as true today as it was once. With each new generation that becomes less and less. But there are a lot of people who are worried about that, who think that maybe it's not a bad thing to retain your individuality.

Dr. Patrick: Yes, I was suggesting the same thing. So I think I'm hearing it a little bit differently. You're saying that-- how do we maintain a sense of one's own ethnic identity and at the same time have inter-ethnic cooperation? Speaker3: Yeah. Dr. Patrick: That's the-- Speaker3: Yeah, yeah. You see. How does one accomplish?

Speaker3: We had this as one of the first discussions, I think, at the beginning of the semester we talked about it.

Dr. Patrick: It all relates I think, to the development we talk about. We haven't had a social science. I mean, this is part of that. We have not really tried to put our community together in social terms, and this would be one of the items on that agenda. So you would be celebrating each other's differences. You see, now that's the kind of thing that would-- we'd be putting our attention. I think that social planning tends to be social service. HWA type planning, and that may even have the effect of making further walls, because as you say, one group resents another group getting whatever the limited number of goodies are. Yeah, And there is in this idea of trying to figure out ways in which we could appreciate our appreciating each other and our common citizenship in this community. Well, we've gone. Dr. Patrick: Let me just say a word about Pace, though. You mentioned Pace before we close. Do you know about Pace, any of you?

Speaker3: Not very much. Patrick: Program to Aid Citizen Enterprise. This is a offshoot of the United Fund Community Chest Health and Welfare Complex begun in 1968. It is alleged that the plan was in the works prior to the riots, but certainly the riots accelerated the operational details. The Chest, the fund through the Chest gives a pay of $600,000 a year to put into disadvantaged communities again for social services. When it was set up, it was recognised that the Black community was the most disadvantaged and the members of the commission were all Black. They still are all Black. They-- there were 12 commissioners, three of whom were appointed, one by the Fund, one by the Chest, one by HW, and the other nine elected at a meeting which was called and held in my church. Now in the years since 68, that group of persons have funded projects in the city. Social service projects, Little League teams, and, and newspaper, and, and McKeesport, um,some community center activities and the, and the Sinclair Village Housing Project,baseball team in North Versailles, this sort of thing. And has been a vehicle through which groups could get some funds who were not getting it or couldn't get it from OEO. OEO went out right after that and could not qualify for Chest membership. It was an instrument to allow funds to get to groups which would, which would use these funds, hopefully wisely, in bringing some better quality of living to residents in a community, to men and women, boys and girls.

Patrick: It is still existing. The commission did vote and the Chest was notified that it would put on a couple of Whites. And I told the chest that we look for some qualified Whites and they're hard to find [laughter] on the commission sometime next year for, for a term. But it's interesting because it's the only place in the country that I know of where a group of Blacks have had 600,000, for since 68. What, a couple million dollars, I guess, that we've distributed throughout this this greater Pittsburgh area. Perryopolis, South Side. North Side. Homewood, Hills. Clairton. Mckeesport, Homewood and so on. And it's an interesting thing giving out money. So here again, you make one friend and you make 13 enemies because if your project is funded and mine isn't. Then you are a bunch of no good, no goodies. Well, it's an interesting thing because the Chest and the fund and the Welfare Association did have the foresight to set this money apart and put no restrictions on the commissioners. That is, the commissioner's judgment is the final judgment. If the commissioners vote to fund you at 18,000 or 38,000 or not to fund your program, then there-- that's the way it goes. Now, some of the Blacks and some of the groups still don't believe this. So they'll write [??] off with a check or write somebody to help with a problem. And of course, there's nothing [??] can do or [??] can do because commissioners have asked. Roy Bates is the chairman or the executive director of this particular group of--

Speaker3: ________________ Got all that money and stuff together and put up the rest. Circulation stuff.

Patrick: Yeah. Speaker5: That, finally they decided _______________________________.

Patrick: It was at Point Park. Yeah. It was at Point Park.

Speaker1: Well, thank you, Dr. Patrick. It was very--

Dr. Patrick: Thank you very much. Speaker1: Informative.

Dr. Patrick: I enjoyed the remarks. Very--