Burke, Selma, November 16, 1973, tape 2, side 1

Selma Burke: --Bomb, or was it just another bomb scare? [background noise. ed. note: appears to have been recorded on a moving train.]

Unidentified Female Speaker: No, I think it was really just a bomb scare. Burke: I think maybe-- I think the Italians wanted us to believe that this was a bomb, because it was a bum train. And then to get us up and out and searched all of our baggage. For what? And nothing happened. And then to get us all up again in the middle of the night.

Burke: 3:00 in the morning. Off of one train into the snow.

Burke: I have been carrying my coat-- a fur coat from America all throughout Europe, and I never used it once.

Burke: And the only time I needed this coat was last night and I was furious, carrying it all the time. But last night, my God, was I glad I had it.

Burke: What did you feel about this thing? Weren't you surprised? Unidentified Female Speaker: I just-- I was just furious at the whole thing because they searched my luggage and--

Unidentified Female Speaker: Really created chaos in the whole place. What were we? Two hours late? Burke: Yes, two hours late. And, and then-- besides we were to go straight from Rome to Calais, not to Paris. You see, we had to come to Paris, change.

Burke: Now, instead of going straight from Rome to Calais and change and go into London. We had to come to Paris to do another train, change, wait one hour there, take the train now to Calais. And then again the boat to Dover, you know, to Dover and then to London. And it's all so ridiculous.

Unidentified Female Speaker: Just for a [??]. Burke: Yes. Unidentified Female Speaker: And there aren't even any first class seats in this train. We paid the Earth [??] for first class seats and there we are sitting up all night on hard benches.

Burke: And this man-- I was in the second class cabin...

Burke: with four people, with a man who coughed all of the time. It was simply awful. And he never one time put his hand over his mouth. Nor did he cough into a handkerchief.

Burke: All he did was [mimicks coughing]

Burke: And I was so nervous. [recording paused]

F. Howard: --From Des Moines. Unidentified Speaker: Des Moines. Howard: That's right. Unidentified Speaker: Historical Society. Howard: That's right. That's where I heard about it. Unidentified Speaker: It's Pictured-- Unidentified Speaker: Yes, that's right. Howard: That's right. Unidentified Speaker: As a matter of fact, I thought you were going to say in the public library. Unidentified Speaker: No, no Historical-- Well, there may have been in the library too. Howard: I believe, in the public library. Unidentified Speaker: In the Historical Society. Howard: Yes.

Burke: They have nothing. They had nothing on him here. When we-- when the arts and letters decided to honor a number of people like Paul Robeson, Lena Horne, Dr. Mays, and so on, we had a thing in New York at the at the Americana, and we asked Sadie, who was his niece, Sadie Alexander, to accept it for him. And she did. And Sadie was talking for 45 minutes and everybody was beginning to get nervous and leave. [laughter] And so-- no they-- but you see what I did to it here-- I was not going to let her have a thing to say. I was glad those little people pinned the orchid on her because that was-- that was as far as I was going to let her-- because we set it for an hour and nobody had done it. They had all these years. Unidentified Speaker: It was beautiful. Burke: I worked on that, darling every-- Unidentified Speaker: It was beautiful. Burke: I worked on it. And I told Ted Hazely about-- I was down in New Hope teaching and I-- we had built this beautiful museum in, in Harrisburg and they had let a Negro exhibit there. And I said, I'm paying taxes. And I got a group of artists. And we came to to to Harrisburg and we went to see the curator and said, we'd like to have an exhibition here. We are all taxpayers. And they said, well, yes, of course, but but we'll have to talk this over. And I said, well, you talk it over, but if we don't get an exhibition-- and all the others were men, and I said, we'll go and take it to capital, because it's just across the street.

Burke: So the guy got very angry, but he went off to somewhere and we went out and had some hamburgers and hot dogs and came back and said, oh, yes, sure, you can have an exhibition. Now, when do you want to have it? And I said, well, whenever you-- you set the date, we'll be ready. They set it for Negro History Week. And so we thought we were going to have-- just do an open that week. But when we came to bring our work, they had gathered up all the children's work, Black children's work from all the schools in all the neighboring Black counties, and they were going to hodgepodge it all in there together. I said,I approve of you showing the Black children's work. They need the exposure. But we are professional people. We've gone to the same schools that you have. Some of us have museum training. We haven't had a chance to express ourselves because you have the job and-- but we all are professional painters and sculptors and we want a juried show, and we want it just as you would hang any other show here. And so they had to go off and have their conference about that. [laughter] So we come back and said, well, this is true. Yes. So they come back and said, oh sure, well, so what happened to us? We had a juried show and they had they had 3,000 people in that museum that Sunday.

Burke: And the woman that's responsible for me having the show there now is Fern Hetrick. Fern Hetrick was photographed with me and she and I are looking at the head of Mrs. Bethune because she knew something of Mrs. Bethune. And Fern Hetrick said, If I live long enough, you'll have a show in this museum, a one man show yourself. Now, this is-- this is 15 years ago because I've been on council now nine. So it was before that. But I made such a noise that they heard me and they said, What shall we do with her? We've got to, you know. So they appointed me to Pennsylvania Council on the Arts, and that was a bad day for them too. [laughter] Because they, they haven't been-- and I'm making fun, you know, a lot of this. But I served through the two years under Governor Scranton and the four years with Governor Shafer and the three years now with the with Governor Shapp. And my brother died, and he called me in the middle of the night and said my brother had been asked to make the blessing in the Acorn Club when they were honoring Eugene Ormandy. And he was my, my, uh, um, escort. And, uh, and he was a great big man and very impressive and a presiding elder in the AME Zion church. And so I said, Jay don't say no blessing for these people.

Burke: They all are multi-millionaires.

Burke: And they won't give you a dime. Just let them sit down and eat like they always do and Jay sat there with a glass of ginger ale. And I put him way down with my dearest friend. I didn't have anything to do with seating him because Bunny Winterstein, who was then head of the museum on the parkway there in Philadelphia, and who, by the way, was responsible for buying a Henry O. Tanner. The Nativity scene. And it's like for me going to Mecca every Christmas, I'm jumping around because I must get to the Tanner thing straight. So Tanner-- That Tanner is put out every Christmas and draped with Laurel in a glass encased enclosure. And I go there every Christmas and I-- and-- and it's like going to Mecca if one must go. And, um, this is done every Christmas. They have honored Tanner. Now, where was I before I told you, I'm so tired. I don't know where I am. But, um.

Howard: Honored in Pittsburgh. Not honored in Pittsburgh.

Burke: Yes. So we are we're there at the exhibition. And I said, have you had Henry O. Tanner here? And uh, no who is Henry O. Tanner? Well, anyway, they had a receiving line and we were going down the receiving line and there's the governor, and there's the mayor and everybody. And they said are you going on receiving the line? I said, No, I'm not going on any receiving line. I'm one of the artists, and I'm going to shake hands with all of these people who have the power. And so I went down the line with the rest of the artists and I got to the mayor and he took my hand like this. And he said, Now, isn't this wonderful? Isn't this wonderful? And we're going to keep it for a whole week. And I said, But Mr. Mayor, are you serious? What are we supposed to do the other 51 weeks out of the year? And he said, well, this is a start. Now this is a start. And I went right on and shook hands and kept right on going. Well, we stayed there two months. And then after that, I was appointed to the Pennsylvania Council on the Arts and at the honoring of, of Eugene Ormandy at the Acorn Club. At that time, no Black had ever been in there. It was similar to the famous Duquesne club here. But I understand there's a Black-- Unidentified Speaker: except there's women. Burke: there's one now, but in the Acorn Club there's not any yet. But I've got hopes. Unidentified Speaker: No, I'd say it's a woman's club. The Acorn. Burke: The Acorn. Unidentified Speaker: Yeah. Burke: In Philadelphia. Unidentified Speaker: Mmhmm. Burke: Yes, but in the, in the, in-- the Duquesne is a men's club.

Howard: It is a-- one Black [??].

Burke: Now here. Now, I didn't find-- I didn't see. I got to see that. I got to see that. But I heard. Well, anyway, so my-- we went from there to the Ormandy thing and, uh, the Governor Scranton, Governor Shafer was governor, but Scranton was my favorite because it was through Scranton that I did all my-- get things moving. So-- and Ray Shafer is a darling. I have some beautiful letters from him. But, you know, my brother hadn't met him and I was-- we were all in this sort of horseshoe thing there in the Academy of Music, the box like thing. And so at the intermission, I was walking around and I was introducing and I said, Governor Scranton, may I present my brother, Reverend S. Jay Burke. And so Ray Shafer said, he was my predecessor. I'm Ray Shafer. How do you do? [laughter] I've done many-- made many, been-- made many mistakes. But anyway, we laughed that off and it was kind of cute. Uh, I had ten brothers and sisters, seven of whom I knew, uh, and uh, all of whom who have-- all but one brother had gotten their degrees either from Livingstone or Harvard or Winston-Salem or Johnson C Smith's. There. My sister is now-- just turned to me and in Philadelphia, and I hate it because she's become like all millionaires and doesn't want to share a penny until she gets two million, maybe, or three. But I don't think she'll last that long.

Burke: Anyhow, and my young sister is still teaching and she's teaching in a school where they have closed out all the Black teachers in the South. And she's the only one. And she said she's going to stay on. She's 65 this year, but she's planning to stay on because she's-- until they get at least one Black teacher in there. They had two and one had to have an operation and the other went to a better school. So there's one in that school. But the, the, the Black kids,I must say, where the conditions have improved have shown-- such progress because they were so far down, I think, that anything done for them has made them look like more-- they have made more progress than anybody else. Simply because they had no opportunity before. I mean, to go to have study out. To learn how to study. No. Who's going to? Well, anyway, I think that all that's been happening during the Black experience, if we may, that many, many things have happened. That is outstanding with the Black group simply because more of us have had a chance. And if it looks like we're making so much progress, we're not making so much progress. But the little progress that we are making looks so big because we didn't have the chance. That it really isn't very much. And this is the way I see it.

Unidentified Speaker: I think that's just beautiful.