Brooks, Evelyn, May 11, 1976, tape 2, side 1

Nora Faires: You live for two weeks down in the-- in the flats. But did you ever consider moving from Homestead?

Evelyn Brooks: No, I didn't. No. Uh, my husband did. Uh, he did think of moving to the area that is now called West Mifflin. At that time, it was not as populated as it is now. The suburban living for me was not very attractive. And I think one of the reasons was because I did not travel at that time. Uh.

Brooks: We did think in terms of buying a home in the West Mifflin area, but we changed our minds and we made-- to stay. I really and truly think what prompted the decision was the fact that my parents were still in the area and our family ties were very close. For my sisters, it was different. They went to Washington, D.C. They were not married when they went to Washington, D.C. but I was, um, married and we-- employment.

Brooks: My husband was satisfied with his employment at the airport. Um, he could have put in for transfer and made it to California. Chicago. But, um. We were more or less content to stay.

Faires: That sort of job as a skycap. Um, sort of the top of the line for many Blacks at that time. Brooks: At that time.

Brooks: Yes, at that time. And there was a hierarchy in-- among the skycaps. It was believed skycap who-- employee who did the hiring, who, uh, wrote up the schedules, who convened the staff meetings. That sort of thing. Um, they unnaturally his um, check, his salary was higher than the other skycap. But he did share in the-- He worked right along with the skycaps. Right. Thanks. Since then, flights have gone into other positions. But the majority of all the fellas that I know who were employed the same time, at the time that my husband worked there, they have remained as a skycap. We were in California just this spring and one of the lead porters here is still employed as a skycap in Los Angeles. It affords a comfortable living and many of their goals have been achieved in this position.

Faires: And so no one in your family either went into the mill which was your father's work or went into the-- into service, which was your mother. Is that true?

Brooks: My-- let me see, my oldest brother never worked in the mill. I have to go down, I think now. My youngest, the second brother worked for a period in the mill. He worked in the Brickyard. I don't think he worked in the steel mill. My third brother worked in the mill before going into railway mail and Bruce worked in the-- That's the youngest brother. He's the youngest brother. He worked in the mill for-- after coming from the service, pending another job for, I guess-- I don't think was over a year. No, none of my brothers have retired from or worked in the mill for a long period. I know my husband-- of all of them. I, Charles worked longer, perhaps in the mill than my husband did. But Charles and my husband worked about the same.

Faires: And did any of the women consider going into domestic service? You mentioned that your sisters had trouble getting jobs in the 40s. Brooks: One-- I was thinking about that the other day.

Brooks: The sister, who is immediately under me, worked for a very brief period in domestic service. Uh, Catherine never worked in domestic service, Edith, nor Laverne. My sister Edith was employed as a clerk in a cleaners. Um, I did domestic service for a while. Not long. I laugh about it. I worked for a Southern family over here in Munhall. Was a granddaughter, a mother and a grandmother. Oh, they were all-- Well, the mother and the grandmother were widows. And the daughter was a, granddaughter was an old maid. But she did marry later. I was the first-- when-- this is a comment of the grandmother. She says that you are the first maid we ever had who could talk as well as we did. At first I felt very complimented because I was very, very particular about my English. And one day they were seated at the table and the granddaughter, who was a private secretary for United States Steel, I think anyway, she was trying to spell the word neighbor and she was, you know, whatever. And I was mopping the kitchen and it-- it just gotten on my nerves. So I spelled it for her and she just about went up into the room. So her grandmother explained to me the next day-- we had a very nice relationship. Uh.

Brooks: She had reached the age. She was about 78. She had reached-- she had forgotten whether she was white and she was just dealing with people. Uh, she said-- she always called me Ellen. She says, Ellen, you know, Elizabeth became very polite with you because you spelled the word. And when I told my mother about it, she said, Well, after all, they were not talking to you. And it is true they were not talking to me, but I just got tired of them trying to spell simple words. And I was pretty brash anyway. And.

Brooks: The mother said, I think that you were the first girl we've ever had who talked as well as we. So I didn't know whether I was complimented or criticized. I didn't know-- it didn't-- it really didn't bother me. She only paid me $3 a week anyway, and-- Faires: Working how much? Brooks: Eight hours a day, I washed, ironed, cooked and cleaned and took their sass for-- And I gave them mine too. Um, for three, ah, $3 a day.

Faires: Did your mother, when she was working as a domestic, did she live there? Brooks: Live-- Faires: In the home?

Brooks: In the home? Yes. Faires: Yes. Brooks: Lived in. She lived in, uh, but she also maintained and-- she and her sister maintained a, um, a room at a someone else's house. But during-- they would come home, you know, Thursday was a day off and they would come home. She would come home then, but she would, but I didn't live in, uh, because it was just over here in Munhall over there on Ninth Avenue. I didn't live in. I, uh, my mother never, uh, cotton too much to her daughters living anywhere else. So we had to be home at night. I-- Well, I understand. I know why she, she wanted all her brood under her wing, but my mother wouldn't have heard of one of our-- her daughters. She didn't want them working in domestic service anyway, but they had to stay overnight.

Faires: Do you know why she had that attitude?

Brooks: My mother was a very very straight laced person.

Brooks: Perhaps she realized that you would be exposed to-- Uh, it could have been a carryover of the, the Southern, white and the Black relationship, particularly where men were concerned. So I suppose that's what she had in mind.

Faires: That's why she didn't want you to live in.

Brooks: That was one of the reasons.

Faires: What-- what about her attitude that she didn't want her daughters to go into domestic service?

Brooks: Mother always wanted something better. She had to do it for a period and she wanted something better than-- my mother never-- Never-- in this business of some mothers, you know, prepare their daughters, you know, to get a-- get a man with money or, my mother never gave me any insight into how I could get a man with money. But we laughed about that. She taught us that she-- my parents did not want us to do domestic service, but there was you know, when you look at it, they didn't have a whole lot of wherewithal, you know, to take care of it. So you would have thought that my mother would have, you know, kind of given me some pointers about how to get you a rich husband. Of course, she didn't get a rich husband. That's true. But as far as knowing how-- getting information from her, she didn't have it. I would treat my daughter a little differently. If I had money. I would treat my daughter. I would give her a little more information.

Faires: Do you have children? Brooks: No.

Brooks: I. I helped-- my sister Catherine had a war marriage, and she had one child by her husband. And they separated. And my parents reared her son. When my parents died-- When my mother died, the son, he was 15.

Brooks: He and my sister, the one who is not married, remained in the family home until he graduated from high school. And then he came to live with my husband and me. Uh, my husband and I were instrumental in helping him to, uh, go to school, uh, to college. He received a scholarship, a football scholarship the first year to attend, um.

Brooks: Maryland University of Princess Anne, Maryland. Uh, he was at the school, I think about six weeks, and he received a football injury and he did not play football. But they continued the scholarship. And the second year, uh, they withheld the scholarship but told him that if he came to camp, they would have, you know, they go to school six weeks football camp before school starts. They would see how he was going to do that year. About a week before he was to go, he was out running at the athletic field and pulled a tendon in his heel. So well, that blew that. But my husband and I were able to keep him in school. Uh, he stayed in school and he made his home with us. He completed his four years at Princess Anne, and when he graduated, he went into Vista for a year. For four years. And while in Vista he received a grant ___[??] mental health to attend Atlanta University. So he went to Atlanta University. And I-- parting word that we told, because he lived with us and he was just like our own, uh, I told him, I said, now they tell me they had some real Georgia peaches down at Atlanta U. And it's time for you to get your wife. And, uh, sure enough, he did. He met a girl from North Carolina, and she has her master's in social work. And he has his, they live in Philadelphia. She is supervisor of the Get Set [??] program for Philadelphia County, and he works for the Department of Welfare. They have one son. He's five years old and they owned their own home. So we claim him as ours. He is a very, very nice chap.

Brooks: And his wife is a very nice, of course [unintelligible]. And he looks at us as his second set of parents. Faires: How do you think that

Faires: Homestead generally has changed since you've been-- since you've grown up? Brooks: Um, let's see. How has Homestead-- Well, I'll.

Brooks: Let me see. I'll start here. When I was in high school, I had-- we didn't have counselors, but I recall a history teacher telling Black girls, particularly when we were selecting our courses for school, how she very carefully pointed out to us that she felt that it would be unwise for us to take a commercial course. Well I wasn't interested in the commercial course anyhow because I was planning on going to college. Her reason for it was that you would not be able to secure employment because there weren't any Black businesses. And of course she was very narrow in her perspective. So one girl in particular did not pay any attention to what she advised. And she took a commercial course. And at the present time, a Black girl, a close friend of mine, she is secretary to the assistant superintendent of schools in the Steel Valley area. But she was advised by the Black teacher not-- by the white teacher, not to take a commercial course. Um, I knew when it wasn't-- it's changed. We have a number of Blacks who are in the school system. When I went to-- all through my elementary, secondary education, there were no Black teachers at all. Now, the principal of the, um. What's the school here?

Brooks: The middle school? Principal of the middle school is Black. Um. Bob Wright. He's not a native Homestead, he's a Pittsburgher, but he is the first Black principal we had. The first Black teacher in the Homestead schools, you know, before the merger. You know, Homestead and Munhall merged. And the first Black teacher in the Homestead school was a girl who grew up in this community. We've changed in the-- our education. There are a number of Black teachers in this school. Uh, there's employment other than teacher. Um, there are women who work in the school in the housekeeping department, Black repeated [??] there. Uh, when I came up, there were no Black maintenance men in the school. There are now. There are Black school guards. Uh, these changes have have come about. And I've seen these changes. For a number of years there were no Blacks on the school board, a bunch of Blacks [??]. But we do have a Black man who's on our school board, Charles Hobson. And I just saw him down the street today and we were talking about the Head Start program. And um, he is truly pulling for a fair distribution of jobs that will be coming up during the summer.

Faires: When you were in school, Blacks were-- made up about how much of a percentage of the class would you say?

Brooks: I'm real bad on percentage, but let's see. When I-- when I was in high school in a class of about 43, there might have been, uh, well, I'll put it this way. I graduated in 1932 and there were approximately 151 in the class. And, uh, five of them were Black. Uh, and there was only, uh, one Black boy. There were six of us who graduated. There were six and five were girls. And the other one was a boy, Black, one Black boy. Uh, but starting out in ninth grade or in eighth grade, I'll say ninth grade, there were approximately-- approximately 4 or 5 other Black person in the class. But they dropped out. They did not attend.

Faires: They went to work? Brooks: Went to work.

Brooks: Some moved from the area. I don't know, but the majority of them went. Um.

Faires: But that certainly changed.

Brooks: Changed. Yes. Now, uh, well, I suppose it's best towards, uh, education and families realizing that, uh, in order to function in the mainstream, you've got to have at least the high school education. You know, that's. That used to be a real big thing, but now you almost have to have a master's degree to get a job to do things in state. The kids are really enjoying school more so than they are now.

Brooks: Were in my time. Well, one thing I think one of the deterrents of further education in this area for some folks in the summer, they would find employment in the mill, you know, in the booming years and the pay was good and you could get the material things, you know, that you wanted a car or suit, a vacation or whatever. So they started making that good money during the summer and they just didn't want to give it up. So that's a lot of fellas. That's one of the reasons a lot of fellows, Black fellas in Homestead, did not get their education. But the percentage now is much, much higher. You find-- I suppose our. Economic system has improved enough that you don't have to snatch a kid at school to supplement the family income. There are other means, you know, back in the early 20s. Welfare was unheard of. Many fellas and girls had to come out of school to just help the family survive. We didn't. None of my brothers and sisters had to come out of school for that reason. It could have helped, but maybe it had a little more in the coffer. But we were able to stretch the-- well a dime and a quarter went a long way. See, I have, uh, kids nowadays.

Brooks: Don't hear if they ask their parents for a quarter and few of them ask for quarters. You know, it's a dollar now. But even if they ask for a quarter, they do not hear their parents say, I need this quarter to buy a loaf of bread. They don't hear this. Um, my little niece, she's 15. She will be 15. She speaking in terms of an allowance last week when we were riding, my brother had come from Philadelphia, and he's always enjoyed going for a ride. That was a real big thing in our family. Uh, well, nobody goes for a ride in Pennsylvania now, you know, if you're going out, you're going somewhere. But just to go riding around, looking at the sights, nobody does that. Well, anyway, we used to do that. So he can't get away from his home training, I guess. So we went for a ride and she went with us. And she was talking about, well, my daddy will give me $20. And I almost flipped because I was married. And oh, for a number of years before I had $20 that I could call, you know, really, truly my own. But this-- this is the way. This is the trend now parents are able to give their kids.

Brooks: I never knew then what an allowance was. Faires: Did you then have a car?

Faires: You mentioned going for drives.

Brooks: My-- my brother did. My brother Charles, who worked in the mill, my father never had a car. As far back as-- my fath-- My brother had a car, I suppose. Oh, as early as 19, maybe 38. He had some car. He was working in the mill and he purchased his own car and has had one ever since because my husband and I have had a car ever since we were married. But my father never owned a car. Um, my-- the Sunday treat was to get in the car and go for a ride. And at that time my husband was working in the mill and I spent a lot of time between my husband and parents. And when the rest of the family was going for a ride, I was one.

Faires: Did you ever go back to Virginia to visit relatives?

Brooks: I have been. I had been there, um. Oh, 19-- When did I go? About 1940, I'd say around 45. I visited my parents, both of their homes. I went down by train and by bus to, um, from Charlottesville to Lynchburg.

Faires: Was it something that they did as well when-- after they were married?

Brooks: My father-- I recall my father going home only when, um, before I was grown, when a death occurred. And then in 19, oh, I would say about 1947 or 8, uh, my husband was working at the airport and the skycaps had the pass privilege for family and my husband. I know. I think I know. It was just-- I don't know whether he got it for my father, for my father or not. I think he could get for father in law. My father went by plane to Charlottesville and he was to stay, visit with family there. He had a sister there, that was the only immediate relative and he was to stay for a week. Well, he left like on Tuesday and Thursday evening. We were sitting on the porch at my mother's and my husband drove up and I was wondering, what in the world is he stopping here? Well, sometimes he would stop by for me and pick me up. But someone got out of the back seat and it was my father. He had come back from his trip. He said he had seen everybody. He wanted to see me and come up. My mother, after her brother's wife died, they lived in Chicago and he wanted to go back to the family and she went down with him. She and her mother went back to

Brooks: Lynchburg, Virginia. Then about two years later, she went herself. She went by herself and visited in Lynchburg and then came back to visit, stayed. Spent some time with my sister. So but they never spoke in terms of going back. Faires: Did they ever talk about the difference

Faires: between the North and the South or living in Pittsburgh, Homestead area and living in Virginia?

Brooks: They made the the reference. It was um, maybe in terms of, of well, we didn't do it that way, but never in a way that-- a bitterness. And although they were aware that there were-- there was discrimination um, they never spoke of it in terms of it being something that was eating inside them, uh, where they could be sympathetic to the people being discriminated against when they spoke in terms of our going down, that whatever the rule there was, we were not demanded by our parents. But, uh, if that's their rule, will you follow it? So it's just when I went there, it was-- I didn't question why I had to go in the back of the bus. I went. I didn't like it, but I knew I couldn't do anything about it. And the little time that I was going to be in Virginia, I was not going to write that home. So I'm glad I left it to Rosa Parks. She didn't-- She had suffered it longer than I had. But they-- They talked about in the school system. My mother-- I never heard my mother say that she had white instructor teachers, but my father did. My father did have 1 or 2 white instructors who came to their one room schoolhouse.

Brooks: He had white and Black, but I never heard my mother say that she had white.

Faires: How about some-- Any interesting stories you remember about growing up here in the 20s and 30s?

Brooks: Let's see. Interesting stories. That would be. I remember we were not allowed to go out on the street when on Election Day, because a a man was killed at one of the polls not very far from our house. Faires: When was that?

Brooks: Oh, it would be around about, early 30s. Um, it seems as though there had been some. Well, just what goes on now, you know, the wrong people voting or whatever. I don't know exactly what the reason was, but I understand that the-- the person they shot wasn't the person they were after. But I guess even then, whoever they-- the white shot the Black man and maybe then they figured they, you know, we all look alike and they-- they-- they saw one who they thought was the person. Of course they-- they had to shoot to get out of it.

Brooks: But that was very exciting. Another exciting thing, you know, Ku Klux Klan were in the area. Uh, on Saturday night, uh, in the late 20s, early 30s. On Saturday nights. Was not an uncommon thing for just stream a long slew of cars to come down. We lived on Lynn

Brooks: Street, to come down from the Homestead Park area with the lights out and once or twice I did see the hooded figures sitting in the car. I actually saw them then, uh, over on Brown's Hill. Somehow or other, um, you could stand in our room, up the hall upstairs and look over on Brown's hill. And I had seen him cross the street and it did generate some fear in me when I would see a-- more than five cars come down the street at the same time at night, I would think that perhaps these would, uh, the Ku Klux Klan were gathering. Now wherever they went, I don't know that they did go down there. I remember when we observed the 50th anniversary of our borough. That was an exciting time. There were a lot of activities that were going on and. Our minister was very active in it and he saw to it that Blacks were involved. Some of the local clubs entered. Um, the, uh, the minister himself was a-- one of the marshals and a-- this man. He later joined our church, but he was a very handsome man. Uh, he had been chosen to ride one of the horses. And I remember him saying that he'd never been on a horse in life, but he wasn't. And we used to have a, uh, the first community center that I ever knew of was our old church. And it was up on 13th. And right now it is a a garage, a repair garage is housed there. And the first well-baby clinic. And this was way back in 1925, was held in this.