Brooks, Evelyn, May 11, 1976, tape 1, side 2

Evelyn Brooks: The-- mine was similar to hers, but it wasn't. It was different from my other sisters. But I always wanted to tell him that, well, maybe if mine hadn't been mixed with his, mine-- because his hair was not the same grade that my mother's was. And that's why mine had to have the heat. Mine was a finer grade than my other six sisters. I had six sisters and so she would say, uh, cultural things. She was very, very impressed with orators at that time. There were a lot of people who would come to the area speaking on conditions in the country, particularly Black colleges and she always, she and my father always attended. Her favorite theatrical performers were Williams and Walker. They were a long, long time ago. Entertainers who put on shows for various things. She was not an avid reader.

Brooks: But she did read to us. I-- The first story I ever read-- heard read was read to me by my mother. My father was a Bible salesman, and the first Bible story that intrigued me was the one of Jezebel.

Brooks: And how she used to be. She was thrown from the balcony and the dogs lapped up her blood and all that kind of business. That really, truly intrigued me. Uh, my mother is going to open this-- colorful book. Uh, when the radio came very important. And. And they had the, uh, soap operas on the radio. My mother

Brooks: listened constantly to the stories. My mother always entertained my father as if he were a guest in her home. They sat in the living room and you always got the impression that they were courting. My mother would-- whatever she was doing, the only thing she never stopped doing, she would not hold back her washing and ironing, ironing, but other tasks that she had to do. If my father were home, they sat in the-- and they always sat in the living room. They talked just like you and I. And that went on up until the time that he died. Um, it was real, real pleasure to be in their company, my parents. We sat on the porch, and my mother entertain my father on the porch, and people would come by and speak to Mr. and Mrs. Johnson. So whenever they didn't see them sitting on the porch, they wonder what had happened. I do that myself. My husband and I sit on our porch. We're about the only people on our street who sit on the porch. But I enjoyed the passing grade. And I think my mother enjoy it too.

Brooks: It was real-- I had a real nice family. People might think I'm-- Some people look at me as if to say, I don't believe you. But it's really true. To do this now, I kind of-- I don't have to fantasize.

Nora Faires: What sort of house did they have?

Brooks: We had a six room brick house. Uh, with a complete bath and a coal furnace with a finish-- third, we call it the third floor. Uh, it was a finished area. This is where our brothers slept clean across the whole house, just in the back. And the roof came like this. But the front end was like this. Uh, we had a living room, dining room and kitchen. All and three bedrooms.

Brooks: My mother and father used the back bedroom. And this people can't understand. My parents never usally slept in the front bedroom. The front bedroom was on the-- On Glen Street, face Glen Street, but their bedroom was in the back. They had the back bedroom, but the front bedroom was-- As a teenage girl. We had-- I had the front bedroom. There were two beds because the number of sisters I had. But we had a coal furnace down in the cellar. And my-- although my father worked in a steel mill. And he had to have-- he had to know how to build the heat for the steel, my mother made the best fire and our walls were painted and that was quite unusual at that time. Paper was the decorative means.

Brooks: But we never had papered walls in our home. When we lived in a rented house. And I do recall that some of my brothers and sisters and-- six of us were born and they are now in Gold Way, but the other five were born in the new house. And they-- they didn't know anything about paper because I didn't know anything about paper until I married. And me house-- The first two rooms that we had had to be papers. I didn't know anything about making a fire until I got married. My mother and father always took care of it. We ate three, three meals a day. Sunday was the day that we had the real big meal. There was always dessert regardless of-- it was just gingerbread cookies or bread pudding, whatever. Alwaysdessert. Uh, if my mother went down the street and we called going down the street, down on Eighth Avenue, anytime, uh, any of us went down the street to go purchase, whatever. You always brought back a treat, but you could get, uh, you know, real big, big bag of candy for $0.15. Or you brought back a real big bag of gingersnaps. And we always got a treat.

Brooks: When we was on the street. And of course, if you went to town and I do that now when I'm going to Pittsburgh, that's going to town. Uh. It was always my mother's custom, when she took someone to town. I always think at that time we did not sit down at the counter, of course. Uh, you stood. You could stand and get a hot dog. Ice cream sandwich. But when I go to town now, I count my lunch money and I make sure I have enough money to have lunch in town. It's an old habit that I just can't give it up. Oh, we had a real nice time. We had a piano and we used to sing around the piano. One of my sisters played. Plays very well. She plays for her church in Washington, D.C., and young people's.

Brooks: Um, we sang. Just about all of my sisters at some time or other, or just sang on the church choir. My mother and father, neither could sing. My mother would say, not exactly, but my father, women who were carrying babies.

Brooks: I recall my mother-- One of my sisters. She was born in-- She was born in July.

Brooks: Born July 19th. And at that time, a woman didn't come outside. I think it was under six weeks. The baby had to be six weeks, six weeks old. So, you know, at that time our summers were very hot and I could see my mother peeping, putting, talking to someone, you know, at the door. She wouldn't come out. Until the six week period was up. And it was dirty, I guess [??].

Brooks: Although I was a good child and there were six under me. I don't recall. Well, she just wore her clothes. And of course, we didn't know until the baby came that we were going to have a new brother or sister. Until I was in about ninth grade when my youngest sister was born. And my older sister, my sister who is two years older than I told me. You know, now parents inform their children when they're going to have another kid. So my mother, you can't do anything about it anyway. So but even so we had a very good life. I took-- I enjoyed my youth.

Brooks: I refer to the fact that I was a Depression teenager. But even out of the Depression, I-- We had some good times.

Nora Faires: Was your father laid off? Brooks: No, in the Depression--

Brooks: My father retired from the mill in 1930. He retired in 19-- you know the crash came in 29, and in 1930 or 31, 30 or 31, he retired. So, uh, it wasn't a period of him coming, being laid off for a long period and without employment. But he was-- he retired.

Brooks: We could not go on leave because of his income. It was not that expensive, but the, um, laws then were pretty stringent. You just, if you were making, I guess, $10, well that just precluded that you do not go on leave. And of course, uh, my father was very, very against accepting welfare. Um, and fortunately, we did not have to go on, uh, but we did make inquiries to find out if it could be done. And, uh, because of his pension, which was not adequate, which was not large, but through management, uh, and my mother was a good manager. We were able to survive.

Nora Faires: Did any of the children go to work then?

Brooks: There was no work to be had. In 1934, my oldest brother did. Uh, there was a friend who funded over, I think it was called the WPA.

Brooks: And my oldest brother, the one who taught in Lynchburg, we had a school, adult education program in our church and he was employed as the instructor.

Brooks: That was under the WPA. And then my second brother Robert was-- You've heard of the enforced camp program.

Nora Faires: The C.C.C? Brooks: C.C.C. He was under that.

Brooks: But other than that, there's no employment for him.

Nora Faires: Was it often the case that Blacks would be able to get into these programs? Did you feel there was any discrimination at that time?

Brooks: I don't feel that. I don't feel that. I think those because there were a number of our friends who were on-- But their parents were not, um, had not been employed, you know, in the mill. Um, and there was no income coming in. Uh, C.C. Camp, I, my, my brother, as far as I know, I don't recall any, uh, discrimination when he made application, he went off, um, and then with the WPA program, it was a totally Black program and my brother and was employed and the program was held in the church and our church, Clark Memorial. And that's where I met my husband. And he was enrolled in the program.

Nora Faires: I was going to ask you about him.

Brooks: So that's how I met him. He was enrolled in the program and I was out of high school and with time on my hand and-- and there wasn't anything really and truly left for me to do all day long. I did try at that time to go back and to take a PG course, but, uh, it just didn't work out.

Nora Faires: What is a PG course?

Brooks: Postgrad course In the high school. Uh, it wasn't being done a lot, and I thought that I would like to go back to, uh, take a commercial course, take some commercial subjects. But I had taught myself to type. My oldest brother had a typewriter, go on a typewriter, and I had taught myself to type and to go into a class. After you taught yourself, you know, the keyboard and whatnot, uh, it was real difficult. So after 2 or 3 weeks, I dropped out. Well, I think one of the reasons in addition to that, this WPA school had opened in the church and, uh, well, I think it attracted me because there were a lot of fellows going through that there who were near my age. And after all, I'm out of high school and these kids are-- those who were in the class, were a year younger than I, maybe a couple of years younger because I was in, oh, three years younger than I, because I was, uh, had been-- I was out of school and I had to go into the ninth grade or ninth grade. Typing. Um, I was glad that the WPA School.

Nora Faires: And what did you take there?

Brooks: I took a Negro literature and public speaking, and then I just-- there was a girlfriend of mine, we were very close friends and we just, just took up a time, I guess. But we were enrolled in the public speaking class and, uh, and the Negro, they call it Negro literature class because my brother taught the Negro literature class and we were, um, well, there-- I think this was one of the reasons why I didn't fight so much or didn't think about the discrimination that was in the school, public school, because my needs were being met in my activities in the church. Uh, I didn't quarrel with the fact that I was not secretary of a class, of my classroom or that I wasn't secretary of or I wasn't in the dramatic class because all these things I found right at my church, I was secretary of my Sunday school. I sang on the choir. It didn't have to worry about being in a glee club. Or singing in a choir school because all of this was being done in my church. [unintelligible] I sang for about 37 years.

Brooks: This is-- it's like-- I can sympathize with kids wanting, you know, to get into activities in the school. But when at first when I first started hearing this, it really, truly didn't upset me too much because I had experienced it. I do feel sorry for kids who, you know, if the school is the only place that offers it and they don't have an opportunity to get into it. But I was getting all this at the church. We had a real-- we were very active in our church program. And I don't know anything that. Well, we had plays at church. We had picnics. We had parties. And I was in study groups and I just never got tied up in the things that were at school, although I went to school every day. Um, I do know that there was discrimination there, though. It wasn't-- It didn't have me tied up in knots. And of course there wasn't the confrontations back in 1932 that young people are having now, but the prejudice was there. But it wasn't a real big thing. I knew in the beginning that I wasn't going to be elected secretary of my class, but it-- and it didn't worry me at all because I had a secretary of my Sunday school and that was something I had wanted to do ever since I was a little kid. So in 1930, when they told me that the secretary had gotten married and she wasn't going to come back and I was the assistant and the job became mine. And one of my goals that really intrigued me, I think that that was really and truly the epitome of was to be the secretary of Clark Memorial Sunday School. We had a real big Sunday school, and that was a real big deal.

Nora Faires: And the picture you draw is almost of a very self-contained Black community. Brooks: Mhm. Faires: Very much oriented towards church and family life.

Brooks: Family life. This-- this is what-- a lot of people can't understand this because they have-- haven't come in contact with. I just don't think they come in contact with because there are a number of people in this community who could-- who could share the very same thing that I'm saying without embellishing it at all.

Nora Faires: And how do you think that's changed?

Brooks: I think because of the mobility of society and I think of people.

Brooks: Because we don't have to depend on the next door neighbor, you know, for, um, companionship, uh, because, uh, maybe, uh, our, uh, friends live in another community. I think this is what's happened. Uh, we were just so mobile now that people just don't depend on that-- any sort of thing. I think I remember when our family, we had the first radio in our community and the, uh, we had an old Atwater Kent that operated by a battery, you know, to go for about two weeks and the batteries go down and you have to take the battery down to have it recharge. And they had the big, you know, metal. Well, I guess you don't know about this. Anyway, it had a big metal horn and then a box and the battery. And our pastor, Reverend M.A. Talley, was on KDKA at church. Uh, he was to speak and the choir sang, and everybody in the church wanted to hear who wasn't on the phone, they wanted to hear it. And our house was. I mean, because we were the only family in the immediate neighborhood had a radio. So, uh, our living room and dining room, uh, we set up chairs and people came down and they listened to the radio and that was a real big social event. My mother served cake and, um, our homemade cake and some of homemade ice cream. Maybe she made a gallon of ice cream.

Brooks: She had the reputation of being able to make the best homemade ice cream. And as I recall, it was real good because it stayed together. She could take a scoop and scoop it out, just like you would do it in the store. She had her own recipe, and that was about that recipe and her recipe for, well, I think I can make better fudge than my mother did. Those were the two things that I came up on, candy. Our family, all of our family loves candy. I can remember at Christmas time. We would have-- And this is the honest to goodness truth. We would have 15 pounds of chocolate candy, you know. 15 pounds plus about 5 pounds of the hard candy. And then all of us got a box of candy from the church program. And, you know, with ten, 11 kids and the mother and father and everybody bringing this candy and, you know, there's a whole lot of candy. And second day after Christmas, all the candy is gone. And our company has come in, but not that much. We've eaten. We've eaten it up. Uh, my mother used-- my father used to buy 5 pounds of candy. Someone sold in the mill, and it was delicious. And he would get it around or maybe a couple of days after Thanksgiving. So it meant it had to be hidden under my parents' bed. And, uh, we discovered-- I-- I'm sure I was the one who discovered it.

Brooks: And we would sneak in and get a piece of, you know. And by the time you opened it up for Christmas, the top layer was gone. But we came up on candy. One thing I cannot understand, I remember my mother making pies and stuffing a turkey and we ate the turkey and the stuffing stayed in and no one ever got sick. Now, if I eat a turkey that has a dressing, you know, overnight, you know, you clean the dressing out. I wonder what happened. Nobody talked about ptomaine poisoning or upset stomach. Uh, but back then, you could eat that turkey, and it didn't work because my mother always wanted to see it out one day because she hated turkey after the second day, she did not care for it leftover the second day. Another thing that bothers me too. How, uh, parents rush if a kid gets a cut and he's bleeding at the mouth, they rush him up to the hospital. Back in my time, when I was a kid. Uh, you put some peroxide on it and wiped it off with a clean rag and go to bed, and you woke up an hour or so later and no one took you to the hospital. But now my sister's kids get a little cut. They rush right to the hospital. I guess. Tender loving care took a whole lot. Took care of it.

Nora Faires: Did your other brothers and sisters stay living near your parents, as you indicated that you did?

Brooks: Oh, yes. Yes. My, um. Let me see now. My sisters remained home. Two sisters passed early in life. And I really and truly-- it was not diagnosed as such. But I-- when I read the symptoms of sickle cell anemia, I do believe, uh, my older sister had sickle cell anemia. I really and truly believe and my brother, the oldest brother who was a pharmacist, shared this with me. He has since passed. Uh, my sisters, I admire it-- but when the war, Second World War came, uh, they. Two of them were out of high school, and employment was very hard even then. And they went to Washington and they made their home in Washington. The, um. Faires: What did they do? Brooks: They worked for government.

Nora Faires: And they got a job.

Brooks: Oh, yes, yes.

Brooks: Working with the government in the departments. What departments they worked with, I don't know. But I do know now that Louise works for the Labor Department. She is a supervisor in her office. Uh, and Catherine, who is two years younger than she, works for Internal Revenue.

Nora Faires: And they were both in clerical jobs. Brooks: Yes.

Brooks: Yes. Uh, the youngest girl, Laverne, uh, attended Duff's Business College. And for a period, she was a private secretary here at Pittsburgh at the Pittsburgh Courier. And when she married, she married a fellow from Washington, D.C.. She returned. She went to Washington, and she lives in Washington. Uh, she is also employed in government work. My sister Edith, who-- she did not marry. She remained in the family home after my parents died, before we sold them. And that was the condition of their will. Um, she is employed at Medical Associates in Oakland. So we stayed in the family home until they were in ________[??] Faires: And your brothers?

Brooks: My brothers, one brother lives here in what we call Homestead Hill. But he's employed as an accountant with Exxon, has his family on the Homestead. That's the area out Eighth Avenue up and around again. We call it the country. He and his wife and one child live in the Homestead Hill. My oldest brother married a girl from Lynchburg and he remained in Baltimore, operated a drugstore, and she was a elementary school teacher, graduated from Columbia University. He passed in 1970. And my, uh, brother Charles lives in Philadelphia. He is employed Navy Department in Philadelphia. And Robert is retired in-- Oh, well, I guess that just about takes care of us.

Nora Faires: And how about your husband? You met him--

Brooks: My husband. As I said, I met him at the, at adult school he came to Pennsylvania from-- He is originally from Kentucky, but he came to Pennsylvania from Chicago seeking employment. When he first came, he lived with an older sister, his sister, and she had told him that employment was available at domestic company. When he made application, they were very amenable to hiring him, but they found out that he was from another area, that he had come from Chicago here, and they viewed the situation that there were people living, colored living in the immediate area who were not employed. So then he left and he returned a year later.

Brooks: And he had found employment in the local steel mill. I think he worked there for about, I would say 7 or 8 years. He transferred from there to United Airlines as a skycap.

Nora Faires: About what time was that? What year?

Brooks: In 1944. He left the steel mill. When he spoke-- mentioned to me that he was going to make the transition I had-- I was a bit apprehensive because this was a mill town, but everybody worked in the, in the mill was a more or less sure thing. Uh, air travel at that time was not as popular as it is now, but there were a couple of fellows, in fact, they were our pastors that were employed at the airport and the airport was out here. And, and my husband said to one of them,

Brooks: How about getting me a job at the airport? And we were at a party one night and he made that comment and, uh, he said, Yeah, they're hiring. Why don't you apply to see you get a job there? They said he could come to work in July. So, uh, he did. In fact, I didn't know it at the time but he had terminated his employment in the mill before he had secured the employment with United Airlines. He worked for United Airlines for 35 years. He is now retired.

Brooks: It's not-- Employed because-- he took an early retirement. Because, um, health reasons. The doctor suggested that-- his heart condition merited him taking off on such a strenuous job.

Nora Faires: Did you remain living in Homestead? Brooks: Oh, yes. Faires: How long were you--

Faires: When were you married?