Parrish, Frazier, undated, tape 1, side 2

Frazier Lee Parrish: Emotion and grief and stuff like that.

Odessa Murdock Diggs: Were there many other Colored people out there?

Parrish: It was only one family when we got there and their name was Johnson's and they live quite a distance from where we live. They have the name of Jim Johnson. He lives out what they call now the South Beaver Township. Diggs: I see. Parrish: And where we were was Darlington Township. Diggs: I see.

Diggs: Are any of the Johnsons still around?

Parrish: No. All dead. All the Johnsons are dead.

Diggs: Did you face any problems when you moved out here?

Diggs: In from anything?

Parrish: No.

Diggs: Find a place to live or getting along?

Parrish: No, we. We moved. Moved on this place when my Uncle John was his Bedford farm, and they had this small tenant house, you know, and it was vacant. So that's where my father got ready to move us in, see. Diggs: I see. Parrish: And when we moved there, people gave us odd furniture and stuff, you know, furnished this house. And that's what we got started on.

Diggs: I see. So there wasn't that much--

Parrish: Better environment out there was very good people. Very nice, I must say.

Diggs: So then you were treated okay as a Colored person. There were no bad feelings you were able to find there?

Parrish: No, no.

Diggs: What's the first organization for Colored People you remember when you were growing up?

Parrish: Well, it used to be a large--they called it K of P. It was in Rochester.

Diggs: KFP?

Parrish: No, K of P, that's the Knights of Pythias.

Diggs: Uh huh. Okay.

Parrish: That was the first lodge I knew about that the Colored--then after that, the Elks started up.

Diggs: I see. And that was in Rochester?

Parrish: No, the Elks--the Knights of Pythias was in Rochester. K of P. And then there was the Oddfellows started up here too, but it didn't last very long.

Diggs: It started up in?

Parrish: In-- Diggs: Rochester? Parrish: Rochester. Diggs: Too? Parrish: And the K of--Knights of Pythias started in Rochester.

Diggs: I was going to ask you about both of those layers. I'm glad you mentioned them now. About what year was that, do you remember?

Parrish: Well, the K of P was flourishing around about 19--well, during the First World War they put it. Diggs: Okay. 1918. Parrish: 1919. It was going pretty good then. Diggs: And the Oddfellows? Parrish: Oddfellows was same time around about the same time.

Diggs: So that was the first organization that you remember?

Parrish: Yeah, but the first one that I joined was the Masons. Then after that, I joined the Elks.

Diggs: Who was the most important worker in the K of P?

Parrish: Well, the--in the K of P, the most important workers is I think at that particular time was the, let's see, were the Law boys. Diggs: Okay. Parrish: Ralph Law, Bill Coleman--they used to live in New Brighton, he was a member of that K of P lodge and all the laws and some of the--and Harrison Board, I think. I think he belongs to the K of P. Diggs: Okay. Board. Okay. Parrish: And the Oddfellows, the head man, as I remember that I know of, Mr. Copeland, used to be, used to live around the--he's Colored. We ran him for years, but they're both dead now. Diggs: Copeland? Parrish: Copeland.

Diggs: Why did that organization why was the K of P and the Oddfellows founded? Do you have any idea?

Parrish: Why, well, they thought by being a K of P and an Oddfellows that you would--the Colored people--would join an organization, that they'd be more closer together, see. That they knew of something good for the race. Why, they figured that the K of Ps and the Oddfellows and the Masons would know about it the first--firsthanded it and they'd have passed a good word on to some of the rest of them, providing--now, at that time you had to be well respected, you see, to join these organizations. Diggs: Right. Parrish: That's right. Now, the only--and to tell you the truth, they wanted you to be a Christian man in order to join the K of Ps, the Oddfellows, and the Masons. Now, the Elks, it wasn't quite that particular, you know, but those other three, you had to be well thought of and from a respected family and everything. No criminal record or nothing could be against you. Diggs: I see.

Diggs: And did they--they make help for you when you needed it?

Parrish: Oh, yes. Yes. I went to Pittsburgh one time and I lost my pocketbook. And I went to this lodge this year, Master's Lodge in Pittsburgh and told him my trouble. He said, don't worry, we'll see you get back home. So he just run his hand in his pocket and he end up going to--going down to the Union Station in Pittsburgh and getting my ticket to go on home. He said, That's one thing about this lodge. If you belong to this lodge and in good standing and a good--they always bringing Christianity in at that time.

Diggs: Yeah. And it worked, cause they did it.

Parrish: It worked. Yeah. So as I say, today, if I went someplace, I wouldn't--I wouldn't be afraid I wouldn't get back home. Even today.

Diggs: Do many of your friends belong to any of these organizations?

Parrish: Oh, yes. Quite a few.

Diggs: Are these organizations still existing?

Parrish: Some of them existing. Some of them ain't. But as I told you in the beginning, I said it got to the place--that was in the bylaws. Once a Mason, you-- Diggs: Always. Parrish: Always. Right.

Diggs: Is the Knights of Pythias. Is that still--

Parrish: No, it's. It's--it's no more Knights of Pythias among the Colored here.

Diggs: I see. What about Oddfellows?

Parrish: No, no, Oddfellows. Diggs: No Oddfellows. Parrish: It just died out. I don't know why.

Diggs: Were you ever employed or were you ever an officer in the--local officer in the Masons? Oh, yes.

Parrish: Oh, yes. Yes.

Diggs: Oh you were. What office were you?

Parrish: Well, I was. I'm a passed Master degree. I got the passed Master's degree. I was also a patron in the Eastern Star. In New Brighton. Diggs: I see. Parrish: I've been through all--all the chairs in the Blue Lodge.

Diggs: Were you ever an officer or employed in the K of P?

Parrish: No, I didn't. I never--to tell you the truth, I never joined the K of P.

Diggs: Oh, I see. So you didn't really--but you just knew about it?

Parrish: But I had all the privilege in the world to join. But I just at that time, I was wrapped up in the Mason-- Diggs: In the Masons, right.

Diggs: Were you ever a member of a labor union? And which ones?

Parrish: Well, I belonged to construction labor, I've belonged to that.

Diggs: Were you active? Very active?

Parrish: Oh, yes. And in in the foundry when I worked in Ellwood City, I was the president of our local there. That's in the CIO. And, you know--

Diggs: Do you think there's any relationship between the union and the fraternal organizations?

Parrish: Well, depending on how many members of the fraternal belong to this union.

Diggs: [laughs] Okay, that makes sense. What difference would it make now if there were lots of fraternal members in the union?

Parrish: Well, they'd be closer together and there wouldn't be no backbiting among them, you know, and it wouldn't strike quite as often. Diggs: Okay. Parrish: Because they're all on the same accord. They'd like to see all everybody work.

Diggs: Tell me now, in the 1930s, there was a Great Depression that affected most of America. How was your life affected?

Parrish: Well, in 1930, we all--all our lives were affected, to tell you the truth. [laughter] Because there wasn't no work, hardly. I mean, one time during the Depression, I had a--I had a job, but the foundry wasn't wasn't getting any orders whatsoever. And one payday, after he took out my dues and things, I had $0.95 left. Now you know what you do with $0.95? [laughter]

Diggs: Not much.

Parrish: I'm telling you. But after the Depression, everything perked up and everything was all right.

Diggs: Well, now, do you think there was any different in the fraternal organizations during the Depression?

Parrish: Well, it wasn't very many could keep the dues up because you had to pay so much dues.

Diggs: Yeah. What kind of contact did you keep with your family back in Chase City, Virginia?

Parrish: Well. You see, back in my family, we always correspond back and forth with what relation was left there, see. Even today, I have relations that is down in Richmond, Virginia, yet we hear from each other. And they been here to visit me. And in July there's a family reunion down there in Richmond. But I haven't been able to go for the last couple of years and kind of this little business I have here, see. So I just haven't been going.

Diggs: Right. You have a little confectionery here. Parrish: That's right. Diggs: Did you--during the contacts with your family, what do you do? Do you send gifts or do they come to visit or do you send money or what? Or do you write a lot?

Parrish: Well, we just write to each other or phone each other and keep in contact that way. Diggs: Pretty often? Parrish: Yes, pretty often. I have one cousin in Philadelphia. She's just the same as my sister. She will call me. She called me when I call her because I'm a poor talker on the telephone. But we keep in contact with each other.

Diggs: Now, this is your uncle. Which uncle is this now? Which daughter?

Parrish: This. This. This. This girl I'm talking about now, that's on my mother's side.

Diggs: On your mother's side?

Parrish: Yes.

Diggs: And so you reunions that you mentioned. When you did go, what were they like?

Parrish: Oh, fine. Everything just nice. Could be, yeah. We had plenty to eat. The only thing your reunion just--just for the one day. But all the interrelation and all would try to make it you on that particular day to this family reunion.

Diggs: Right. But how many in your family?

Parrish: Well, oh, it's a bunch of them. So many, I just. They come from every direction down through that way. Some worked in cities. Some worked on farms, some worked in mills. Some of them were barbers and some were cooks. That's it. Bunch of them.

Diggs: They got their [??].

Parrish: Yeah.

Diggs: Now, you said you belong to church. Parrish: Yeah. Diggs: Do you go often or--

Parrish: Oh, yeah. I like to go every Sunday, if possible. Diggs: Every Sunday. Parrish. If possible, I said.

Diggs: Okay, if possible. But that's what you--what you feel about it. Parrish: Yeah. Diggs: At your church, are all--all the members Colored? Parrish: Oh yeah. Diggs: They are.

Parrish: We have 2 or 3 White go to our church.

Diggs: You have 2 or 3 White. Do you have many activities with White churches?

Parrish: Well, they used to--not as much as they used to because the Colored churches got their place now. They think they're equal to the White, you know.

Diggs: Okay, so they do their thing independently.

Parrish: But occasionally the White ministers exchanged pulpit with our ministers. And we are all invited at that particular time. But as a rule, the Colored take care of their own church activity.

Diggs: Right. Who is your minister?

Parrish: Reverend Page.

Diggs: Reverend Page. I had a couple of courses with him at the University of Pittsburgh. Parrish: You did? Diggs: Yeah. I had psychology with him. Parrish: Yeah. Diggs: What is the relationship between a church and a fraternal organization?

Parrish: Well, let's see how is the best way to discuss that. One thing about the fraternal organization when they meet at a church, like to have a gathering, they always put money taken up. The biggest portion of it is turned over to the church, you know. That they have this meeting there. Now, some churches don't care too much for a different organization because they think that the organizations have men in there wouldn't be suitable for church members, see. Which I think is wrong because there's a lot of good people that don't even belong to church. Very, very good people don't even belong to church.

Diggs: And then too, I think with sometimes the some the Masons, you almost have to be a church member to be in the Masons.

Parrish: They want you to be. But it's getting to the place now that the money is the biggest factor now.

Diggs: Okay. Yeah, I think that's changing everywhere. Parrish: Yeah. Diggs: What about the clergy now? What is your minister's reaction to World Wars? Or does he--

Parrish: I haven't. I haven't been in much contact with the--see, this man has only been here about 6 or 7 months. I don't know what his reaction is towards that.

Diggs: Okay. What about integration? Does he have any mention?

Parrish: He hasn't mentioned that.

Diggs: He's a rather young minister.

Parrish: Oh yes. Very young.

Diggs: Before him, you had Reverend French, didn't you. Parrish: Reverend French. Diggs: Do you remember what his attitude was?

Parrish: Well, Reverend French was a fine man. I must say, I thought a lot of him, and he was sincere.

Diggs: Did he have any opinions on the wars or did he ever mention those?

Parrish: Well, no, He--he was in service himself, but he never talked too much about his army life, you know. But he was a he's a good man. I thought a lot of him.

Diggs: Do you--did you notice any changes in the your lodge, your organization during World War Two? This would be during the 50s. Did you think the World Wars did any changes in the organizations?

Parrish: No, not too much. Not too much.

Diggs: And how did the World Wars affect you as a Colored person?

Parrish: Well, I got along fine. During the war. During the war, I had a job. And other than that, I [??] wasn't too much more.

Diggs: Um, do you feel that your being a fraternal member made it so that you get along like that? No effect or.

Parrish: No. Well, not not entirely. Kind of fraternal organization, no.

Diggs: I mean, did it change your values or your attitudes or--

Parrish: Because during the war, you know, you could find work, see?

Diggs: Now, we've had some people I've interviewed that they saved money with the fraternity or they borrowed from the fraternity. Have you--

Parrish: Well, you could do that then, but I never, never, never did that. Diggs: Okay.

Diggs: Now, they asked me what what race does your wife belong to? She's Colored, too, right? Parrish: Yeah. Diggs: Your wife? Parrish: That's right. Diggs: Is she a member of any fraternal organization?

Parrish: Well, she she used to be the Eastern Star. That's a branch off of the Masons.

Diggs: What about your children? Are any of them?

Parrish: You mean in the organization? Diggs: Yes. Parrish: No.

Diggs: What about your brothers and sisters?

Parrish: Well, my brother that died, he was a Mason. Diggs: Now, [doorbell rings] which brother was this? Parrish: My oldest brother. He's named Robert Henderson Parrish.

Diggs: Robert Henderson Parrish.

Parrish: He died out at the Veterans Hospital in Butler. Diggs: I see.

Diggs: I wonder if there was any reason that they weren't members, all the others?

Parrish: Well, no, it wasn't. No reason. Just they didn't care for joining these organizations.

Diggs: I see. And, well, you did say your wife is in Eastern star, so I know that they have women. Parrish: Oh, yeah. Diggs: What part do women play?

Parrish: Well, the women is just a branch off of the Masons.

Diggs: The Auxiliary.

Parrish: Auxiliary. Yeah.

Diggs: So what do they do?

Parrish: Well, they have their large meetings, same as the Masons do. They have the Grand Lodge. Same as the Masons do.

Parrish: Well, I have nothing against the White race.

Diggs: But which--which group of them seems closest to Colored and which seems farthest away from color? Which is more friendly to Colored and which are less friendly?

Parrish: That's a pretty deep question, to tell you the truth. I have good friends. Some are like that. Some are Italian and some are Slavic. They're good friends of mine. Even the Puerto Ricans in [sound of doors closing; unintelligible]. I just wouldn't know which one to tell you.

Diggs: It's hard to pick, huh? Parrish: Yeah, it is. Diggs: When--then maybe--which ones are not [unintelligible]. Which ones are not [unintelligible].

Parrish: You take to my opinion, and some Irish are not very friendly. Some of them. And some are. And some of the men that I worked in the foundry with, that tried to put me on the wrong track sometimes, they were most Irish.

Diggs: Does your being a member of being a Mason, does that affect your position in the community?

Parrish: Well, it made you. It made you by, being a Mason, it made you want to be more respected, otherwise, by not being. Because the majority of the White people that belongs to the Masonic organization, they--they was well read and they tried to live a respectable life. And by my being one, I wanted to be the same.

Diggs: Okay. So in other words, the question is now, has it helped your family and your marriage?

Parrish: In different times it has helped my family because it kept me on jobs when they let others go.

Diggs: Right. It says, has it helped your business by-- Parrish: Yes. Diggs: And has it hurt it?

Parrish: No, it hasn't hurt me.

Diggs: But now this is a nice one. What class do you identify with? Upper class? Middle class? Lower class?

Parrish: Well, I'm not in the highest class, but I will say I'm in the middle class.

Diggs: Okay. You're middle class. Do you see any class distinctions in Beaver Falls? Think there's much class distinctions?

Parrish: You mean among my own race? Diggs: Yeah, right. I guess. Parrish: Well, it may be a few that think they're a little bit better than what I am. I don't know, but I don't think so.

Diggs: Right. [laughs] Well. But you think they have this? [laughs] That's a funny question.

Parrish: Because I have never been arrested in my life. I'm at the age now. I mean, I ain't got no criminal record, no place.

Diggs: Okay. So then you--you could move to any class you wanted to.

Parrish: Provided I had the finance, yes.

Diggs: Okay. Then you figure that it's based on finance? Parrish: That's right. Diggs: You don't think being a Mason would make you higher class, upper class, do you?

Parrish: No, I don't.

Diggs: You don't? Don't you think Masons are upper class?

Parrish: They're upper class. I know one thing, they make you try to live right now. You call that upper class.

Diggs: Right. But in our in our race, in Black--among Colored Americans, don't you think the Masons are kind of upper class?

Parrish: Yes, they are.

Diggs: So that makes you upper class, right?

Parrish: Appreciate people think that much. [laughter] But you know what I mean by being making me think I'm better than something, but I don't.

Diggs: Yeah, okay. Right. But that question is kind of loaded.

Parrish: Yeah. It is.

Diggs: Did your family ever teach you about color consciousness? Parrish: What way do you mean? Diggs: About color?

Parrish: About Colored people? Diggs: Yeah. Parrish: I think they taught me to try to stay away from those bad ones. [laughs] So.

Diggs: Okay. Do you remember the 1919 steel strike? And what kind of jobs did you have then or your family and friends?

Parrish: In 1919, wasn't nobody had no job hardly.

Diggs: Okay. [Parrish laughs] Do you remember anything about the racial disturbances in 1940--1940--in the 40s?

Parrish: No, I wasn't in it.

Diggs: You don't--you don't remember hearing anything about them?

Parrish: No. I never had no trouble with the race.

Diggs: It was--they had them in Pittsburgh. They were in different places, New York.

Parrish: I didn't--I didn't go around.

Diggs: But you didn't. It didn't affect you.

Parrish: Didn't affect me. No.

Diggs: Do you--how do you feel about the younger Black movement since Dr. Martin Luther King's time?

Parrish: Well. I don't know. I tell you, these young people today is a lot of difference between them now than they were when we come along. Of course, Martin Luther King told them that the other--opposite race hadn't seen anything yet, but some of his predictions have came to pass. And it's still going on. Only one thing I'm really against of between the races is that of intermarriage. I don't like that.

Diggs: Integration. Parrish: Yeah.

Parrish: That's the only thing that I'm really don't see why some of our people do that. Of course, they're all human beings, but in our race is some nice people, nice looking people and it's near White people that anybody wanted. They wanted White. But still they all go down,some of them, to the lowest White person as long as they're White. And give everything they can get their hands on in order to get one of them. I don't see it. I'm strictly from my own race.

Diggs: Okay. Did you know much about the Hill District in Pittsburgh?

Parrish: Not too much. I used to go around on occasion, but I didn't stay on it long because as soon as I went there and seen how things were and how people were acting and one thing and another and people fighting and going around. I didn't stay there long.

Diggs: Okay. [laughs] Did you ever hear of a place in parts of the Hill called Minersville or Haiti or Arthursville?

Parrish: No. Diggs: Never heard? Parrish: No, I never heard talk of that.

Diggs: What do you think is the most significant event in the history of the Colored people here in Beaver Falls?

Parrish: Repeat that again, now. [sound of tape pausing]

Diggs: Significant events. Okay. All right.

Parrish: That's a hard question to answer.

Diggs: Is it? [laughs] Okay, maybe we'll skip that one. Who do you think are the most outstanding individuals in this community and why?

Parrish: Well. I would have to say the ministers in this community. They're supposed to be often doing. And the doctor and the funeral director.

Diggs: Is there any reason you pick them?

Parrish: Well, they have so many different ways they have to contact people, see. Now you take undertakers. They have to--they have quite a responsibility because some people live in such a way they don't hardly have enough money to bury themselves. And they have to go to the welfare for this and welfare for that. When if it was used in life in a different way, that wouldn't have to happen. Some people, you know, our people--White, too--as long as they live and they think that's it. But the end is everything, you know.

Diggs: So you feel that these--these people kind of help give them direction.

Parrish: Give them a direction which they should follow. Diggs: Right.

Diggs: Now, what about--how did you feel about Amos and Andy?

Parrish: Well, we used to watch it when we was when the kids was coming along. They they make laugh at it, but I never thought too much of it. To tell you the truth. Because of the imitating. They tried to imitate our own--own--our race, you see. I rather see what on the television and radio now, the actual people, you know, then to pretend like they are this and that.

Diggs: Right. Parrish: Yeah.

Diggs: Because that's what the next question was. What changes have you seen about-- Parrish: Yeah. Diggs: --Blacks on television today? Commercials?

Parrish: I'd rather--yeah--I like to see them as they are.

Diggs: So you like what's on TV? Parrish: Yeah. Diggs: Right. In the 1920s, membership in the Ku Klux Klan was over 6 million in the United States. Did you remember any activities of the Ku Klux Klan?

Parrish: Only one time. We was out in the country. They burned a cross. See, where was that burned at? But I witnessed--they said they burned a cross somewhere handy not too far from where we were living in. But--but it didn't reflect that no one knew nothing at all. Because a lot of the people that lived near us, they was against it--they wondered why they did that. But at up around Patterson Heights, up this way, somewhere in South Beaver or someplace, they burned a cross one time. But I never witnessed--I never had to come in contact with no Ku Klux Klan. Nothing that I had known of.

Diggs: Right. And what do you think of Blacks participation in the bicentennial?

Parrish: Well, it's all right. I think it's all right. So because there's some--there's some mighty fine Colored people they've been living in--