Nixon, Anne, March 23, 1976, tape 1, side 2

Barbara Billups: I think it's been a half hour. Yeah, because we started five of.

Anne Nixon: Yes we did.

Billups: Okay. I think I cut off the front part too, because. Oh, well, that's okay. Nixon: So anyway, this man, he said to me, I said to him that I just talked to her on the phone and she told me to come right over, you know, And he says, Well, I'll go get her, but I know she don't want you. And she came to the door and she said to me, I'm awfully sorry, but I have just hired somebody for the job. And I knew good and well that woman was lying. Billups: Oh that's-- Nixon: What could I do? You know? And, uh, another time I went to Kaufmann's and I tried to get a job as a seamstress. I took a coat that I had made for one of my children, and they told me that they did not--Aizen's also; remember when they used to have a store on Wood Street? Billups: Aizen's. Nixon: No, you don't remember? Billups: I wasn't there, but I heard of Aizen's before. Nixon: Yeah, well, there's an Aizen's right down from Gimbels, but there used to be another one on Wood Street that was called Maxie's, and I assume that there was a connection between the two stores. Billups: But I've heard of Aizen's before. Nixon: But I went to this one on Wood Street and they would not let me work in the store, but they would give me a great big suit box and I would bring that home filled with work.

Nixon: Sometimes I have as much as $500 worth of stuff in there and we work on it at home. Maybe shorten hems or take it in a bit. You know, their fitter would have done all the fitting and everything and all I had to do was follow the instructions. I did that for a short while too, but I was not. I really did have trouble getting a job. Billups: Oh wow, I don't like to hear stuff-- Nixon: One time the only thing I could do was work in the kitchen and I hated every minute of it. Billups: I guess like you said, kitchen work and housework. Okay. What was the first organization of Black people that you remember existing while you were growing up? Can you remember any? Nixon: I heard of the Urban League-- Billups: Urban League? Nixon: --when I came out of high school and contacted them for them to try help me get a job. And that reminds me, I forgot about a job. You asked me about the first job I ever had. It was with a Black woman in the Hill district here. She lived up on the Schenley Heights Hill, and she had what she called a remodeling shop. She--her clientele were real rich White people, and she would remodel their clothes for them.

Nixon: And occasionally she would have an opportunity to make clothes, too. And since I had taken dressmaking, I took all they had to offer in high school. And when I came out of there, then my mother sent me to a dressmaking school called Keller Dressmaking School. At that time it was out in East Liberty on Walnut Street, and then later on it went to town or someplace and maybe out of existence existence now, I don't know. But anyhow, right out of that, I got somebody somehow or other I made contact with these people at Urban League and a Miss Grace Lownes, who was a silent owner in this shop, was connected with Urban League and got me on at that shop. I used to sew for Mrs. Homer Brown. You've heard of Judge Homer Brown? He's retired now. Maybe you haven't since you're not a Pittsburgher and Mrs. Cuthbert. I never knew what her husband did, but they were some of the wealthier Hill District Black people. And she has been for years on the the board of the executive board or something or other of the YWCA here in Pittsburgh. Mrs. Cuthbert had. I used to sew for both of them when I this was when I first came out of high school.

Billups: Oh, that's nice. Why don't I get breaks like that? Because I don't know how to sew, [laughs] okay. So do you think that was the most important member to you in the Urban League? Because-- Nixon: The most important, what? Billups: Important member of the Urban League, like who do you think was the most important member? I can't see how you would know all of them.

Nixon: Yeah, she she was really the only one I knew. So [unintelligible] she was the only one I knew and was my contact. Billups: Right. Nixon: And she really did me a good turn to get me that job. As a matter of fact, I worked there until I got married. I must have worked there, I guess, a couple of years because I got married then couple of years after I-- Billups: Graduated from high school? Nixon: Mmhm.

Nixon: And not too terribly long after I got married, of course I got pregnant, you know? [laughter] And so then I quit work right after that. Do you want a piece of paper?

Billups: No, I thought I had another tape. No, I'll look for that later.

Nixon: That's back there right?

Billups: Oh, thank you. Okay. Um, so what do you think the most important organization for the Black people was when you were growing up? Was that the only one that you knew of?

Nixon: That was the only one that I knew of because I didn't hear about NAACP until later. Billups: Right. Nixon: And even when I began hearing about the NAACP, I was not the way in which I heard of it. I wasn't really impressed. I mean, I don't know. I didn't think that they were really doing that much for it's only been in, I'd say like the last 20 years that I have really thought that the NAACP was really, you know, on the map for Black people. And so the Urban League was the one that I thought was was the one that was really doing the most.

Billups: Okay. Um, did they ever help you when you needed help? You said already the urban organization--

Nixon: Yeah, they got me that job. And other than that, when my second child was ready to graduate from high school through the Urban League, we got a scholarship. It was called the Barr-Brown Scholarship. Barr was was a congressman in Harrisburg. And I think Brown was also I forget now why this thing was named after them, but they were giving these scholarships to Blacks and my son got a scholarship to go to Pitt.

Billups: Oh, that's nice. Oh, wow. Okay. Do many of your friends belong to this organization?

Nixon: To the Urban League? Billups: Yeah. Nixon: To be perfectly truthful, I don't know anyone. [laughter] I don't belong to it either.

Nixon: I don't know anyone who belongs to the Urban League. The NAACP seems to have taken over now, you know.

Billups: Right. Do you know anybody in that?

Nixon: I know quite a few people in the NAACP. And my church personally puts on a campaign every year to get memberships for the NAACP.

Billups: Oh, that's nice.

Nixon: We have a couple people who each year, you know, when the campaign is open, we'll take the applications right through the church. And I always I was the solicitor one year. I have not. I was just taking somebody else's place that one year because I don't really like to do that kind of thing. But I usually keep the kind of membership that gets me also, The Crisis magazine, I think I usually pay $10.

Billups: Yeah, I used to have to try to recruit people for sickle cell anemia membership. And I know what you're talking about. Okay. Why aren't you a member of an organization?

Nixon: Well, I am a member of the NAACP.

Billups: You are a member?

Nixon: Oh yes. I get The Crisis every month. I subscribe. I don't go to any meetings or anything, but I subscribe every year to the NAACP.

Billups: Oh, so you can give them that? A long time ago when I asked you, did you belong to any kind of organization? Nixon: Oh, sorry about that. Billups: Oh, no, no, no.

Nixon: I guess I didn't realize what you meant then. Yes, I should have given you that, because I've been in that for a real long time.

Billups: Oh, that's. That's interesting, then

Nixon: I'm saying a real long time. I would say probably as far back as ten years.

Billups: Mhm. That's good. Okay. Were you ever any kind of officer or anything other?

Nixon: No. No, I don't participate in any way. All I do is just pay my money, you know?

Billups: Right. Did they ever employ you in any way?

Nixon: No. Okay. I've never even done any volunteer work or anything for them. I've done some volunteer work for NEED. But don't ask me what NEED is.

Billups: It's the Negro.

Nixon: Well, you know what it is.

Billups: For college students. Yeah.

Nixon: Well, I did some volunteer work for them last year and helped out at the dinner and everything.

Billups: You have to get in touch with them. Were you ever a member of the labor union? Nixon: No. Billups: Never. Okay. Uh, was there any kind of relationship between the union, any kind of union or and the NAACP?

Nixon: Well, the only time I have ever been affiliated with a union in any way whatsoever was when I was with the federal government. And, of course, our union. We just barely had a union because the government wasn't for that in the first place. And our union didn't have too much teeth to it. We couldn't strike or anything, you know. And of course, it had no connection with the NAACP. But I will say this. The Black people who were in federal government, if they felt that they were being mistreated, they always felt that they could go to the NAACP and at least get some kind of backing, you know, for their arguments. But later on, as the union got stronger and stronger while it began to to back the Black people for grievances, particularly if you felt that you were being discriminated against or something like that.

Billups: Oh, that's good. Okay. How about the depression in the 1930s? How did this affect your life?

Nixon: Well, I don't really think that it affected our family. No think in it. We were not hit as badly as the majority of the Hill. It's probably because of the fact that my father had been at the railroad for a long time and had enough seniority or whatever built up that he didn't get laid off. And my mother, the kind of work that she did, why they were always in demand. Once you established a reputation with a woman, you know you were a good laundress. Why then she wasn't going to get rid of you for hell or high water, because, you know she liked you.

Billups: And she didn't want to do it herself.

Nixon: Right. She didn't want to do it herself. So both of my parents worked. And up until the time that I was married, why, I. I can honestly say that I never wanted for anything that I didn't get unless it was something that my mother thought that I would get hurt on. Being an only child, she was very protective. I was never allowed to have a sled or a skates or a bicycle because you might get hurt on those things, but anything else? I always got it. Well, when I got married, um, my husband worked at night. He was a janitor at one of the buildings downtown, and he worked at night. And because he worked at night, he didn't want to move us away into an apartment or, you know, someplace of our own, because I would be alone at night by myself. Plus, it didn't make sense anyhow. My parents, we lived at that time up on Hall Street and they owned their own home and I had my own room. And so it just didn't make sense for us to move out, you know? And I'd be alone.

Billups: Especially since you were the only child.

Nixon: Sure, sure. So we stayed with my parents until my third child came. We got married in 32, and my third child was born by December of 37 and April of 38, we moved into this house. My husband and I bought this, but this was big enough to bring my parents with us, right. Because my husband was still working at night, you know, and they didn't have nobody else anyway. There's no point in leaving them up there by themselves. So we just have always lived together. Well, my husband worked at, like I said, at one of these buildings downtown, and we didn't have quite enough money, but we never suffered. We always had food. It may not have been the best of foods I can remember. My husband never liked for me to tell this when he was living, but I can remember when I used to buy like lamb chops or something for his lunch and fix the meat and take the meat out and put it in his lunch and give the children the bones to suck off, you know? But that wasn't all the meat they got, you know. But they didn't get lamb chops. They might have got something that was cheaper, you know, maybe, maybe bacon or something like that. But even so, we were never hungry. Never. And my children, all the way through Schenley High School and they let's see, they were in Schenley. The two older ones anyhow, were in Schenley before I went to work for the federal government, which means that we only had the one salary. They were considered to be among the best dressed kids in the school because I could sew and I would keep them supplied and clothed and all about the worst thing I think that could have happened to us during the Depression was that when my husband would bring his pay home, I would pay all of the bills that had to be paid, and we were buying our groceries on what we called the book.

Nixon: You know, the man would write down how much you spent each week, and I would go around and give him whatever was left over. And practically every week, I would never have enough, you know, to pay him all that we owed him. And so then there would be some hanging over and some hanging over. And finally and I don't remember what year this was, but I'm pretty sure that he. That my husband was no longer working at that downtown place. But anyhow, when they tore down some houses that used to be behind the houses that were across the street, there was like a court back there and it was must have been about 20 houses, kind of poor families lived back there when they tore those houses down because they were just really a disgrace and, you know, quite, quite in very bad condition. All those people moved to other parts of town and left on that grocery store a big pile of money. So then that grocery store had to go out of business. So then my husband and I, we had to scrape up the money. He was about the only ones that we were about the only people he could catch almost, you know, because we were still here. So I think we owed the grocery store something like about $400. Billups: Oh, wow. Nixon: We paid him off. And then after that, we never got behind in our bills or anything.

Billups: Oh, I like to hear that. I like to hear that.

Nixon: Things have been going on pretty nicely. My husband when when the war came, the Korean War? Or Which war? What war started in 1945. No.

Billups: World War I? No, no. I mean--I mean World War Two, 1945. Right?

Nixon: Well, my husband went to work. It must have been 41 that we went into that thing because I think it was over in 45.

Billups: Yeah. Wait a minute. It was because I know--

Nixon: My my youngest was just barely born and I had gone to Kaufmann's to work and I was at this warehouse and oh, it was so cold when they'd opened this great big door for these trucks to come in, you know, And I would get a I was getting a real bad cold and my baby was like four months old. He'd been born in July and this was like December. I was working and everybody was feeling so sorry for me, you know, with this young baby. And I'm standing there writing the names of these packages, you know, that one night. And I felt so sick, you know, And I thought to myself, my husband had just gone to Dravo and his salary was like tripled, you know? And I said, I'm a fool standing here with this young baby at home and getting sick and everything, and he's out there making all that money. I call the man and told him, I'm going to quit the man said, okay. He said, If you just got to quit, you know, you got to quit because he knew I wasn't feeling good. So he says, When are you going to quit? I said, right now, lady, pencil down. Walked out. I didn't go back to Kaufmann's for several years. And when I did go back, I refused to go to the warehouse again. And then I started working in the store. But my husband, when he was in Dravo by then he was a compartment tester, which was one of the higher class jobs, and he made very good money. And then when he left there, he too went to the railroad and he worked for the railroad for like 25 or 26 years before he died.

Billups: Wow. Y'all really--

Nixon: So we really never had any, any, any--troubles

Billups: No, that's good.

Nixon: We, the two of us, my husband and I were going to vote for the first time when Roosevelt was going in for the first time in 1932. And we often talked about as we were going up the Hill, we were voting then at the firehouse up on the corner of Webster and Wanless. And as we were getting ready to go into the polls to vote, several people were whispering in our ears, You'd better vote for Roosevelt if you don't want to be eating out the garbage cans again. And my husband was quite insulted because we've never eaten out of any garbage cans. But times were really hard. We heard, you know, an awful lot because over on in the Lawrenceville section, Father Rice or somebody or other had a soup line over there and there were people over there living in little, not little, but like crates and boxes that had come when the vegetables came in, you know, And there were people actually living in those crates and boxes. They called it Shanty Town. And we saw pictures of that in the newspaper and everything. It was really bad.

Billups: I saw that in Tijuana when I was in Tijuana, and I saw those kind of box houses-- Nixon: Really, really sad. Billups: Oh, it was disgraceful.

Nixon: These people would be standing in line with the little pan, and this man would give them a little bit of soup and a piece of bread every day.

Billups: Oh, wee. Nixon: Really sad.

Billups: Let's get off the subject. [laughter]

Billups: Um, do you keep contact with your relatives, like, you know, your children?

Nixon: Oh, heavens, yes. I'm expecting my oldest one in day after tomorrow. Oh, you have not asked me what my children do. You don't want that in the record?

Billups: Oh, you can tell me. Nixon: I'm so proud of them. Billups: I figured that I could tell.

Nixon: My oldest son is head of the O.E.O. or whatever. Anyhow, it has something to do with the equal opportunity, whatever. He is head of that for I.T.T. in New York City. But he's head of the whole United States. Billups: What? Nixon: Oh, yes. And he travels quite a bit. Billups: And what's his name? Nixon: James Nixon.

Nixon: And when he comes through here on Thursday, he will be on his way back to New York, having been in Denver, Colorado, for 2 or 3 days for something. And my mother said I just talked to him like about ten days ago. And he called my mother yesterday. And he has been three places since I talked to him. And just before I talked to him, he had had to go to Jamaica or no it was the Virgin Islands. He had had to go down there for something. Oh, I'm telling you, he just travels quite a bit. He's he's a graduate of what is now called Carnegie Mellon. Billups: Ooo, stop it. Nixon: It was Carnegie Tech back in the day that he states that he went there and he graduated as a mechanical engineer. And he worked for GE for about 18 years and had really gone up pretty high. He was--when he left GE, he was a district manager for the whole area around Detroit. I think he had like 30 offices or something or other under him. Billups: That is fabulous. Nixon: And he was doing quite well. But then I.T.T. came along and and bought him off. And so then he went back to and this personnel thing was more in his field than the salesmanship field was and he liked it better. Then my second son, he's the one that lives out in California.

Billups: Do you have two daughters and two sons?

Nixon: No, just one daughter. Three sons. My second son, he I told you he got this scholarship and went to Pitt. Billups: Right. Nixon: But he couldn't decide what he wanted to do there. So he only lasted about a year and a half. And at that time, all the young men had to go into the service for two years. It was compulsory then. And so he said, Well, since I don't know what I want to do, I might as well get the service business over and then maybe I'll find out what I want to do, you know? Well, he went into the service, he passed a test for officers training and he went into the Air Force as a second lieutenant, and he came out of there finally. I don't know how many years, I guess about 13 years later as a captain. And he was a pilot and he is now a pilot for United Airlines.

Billups: Oh, wow.

Nixon: And my daughter, I don't know what she's doing down in South America. She's there because she's married to a man who lives there. That's his home. He is an instructor at the University in Caracas. I don't know what he instructs, though. It might be math, it seems like to me. I heard them say, but I'm not sure. But he's also an electronics engineer and he has his own business. He services refrigerators and things and he seems to be doing pretty good at that. But my daughter, before she went out of the country at one time in her life, she has been vice president of Lever Brothers and also of Procter and Gamble in the marketing research department. And when she--the last job she had before she went out of the country, she was on the board of directors of the National Black Network. Billups: Oh, wow. Nixon: Is it National Black Network? Yeah. Yeah. In New York City. That was what she was doing when she left the States. And my youngest, he's not doing as well as the others, but he's happy. So, you know. He works for the the subway in New York City. He's now a conductor. Yeah. Conductor. But within the last 6 or 8 months, he passed the test and is waiting to be promoted to motorman.

Billups: Oh, wow. In New York City.

Nixon: Yes. And all of them have children. I have 11 grandchildren.

Billups: Oh, that's fabulous.

Nixon: My oldest grandchild is in his third year at MIT. He is going to be an architect. My second oldest grandchild just graduated last November here in Pittsburgh from a computer programming school. Computer tech, I think, was the name of it in the Fulton Building. Yes. And he is now working for--but I can't tell you the name of the company in Stamford, Connecticut. He has a this is a copy of his diploma to my daughter.

Billups: And this is a this is one of your grandchildren?

Nixon: That's my second oldest grandchild. My third oldest grandchild is in college in Davis. I think it is. California. And I think she is specializing in social work or something like that. And then the rest of them are from high school age on down to like one and a half years old.

Billups: Your whole family altogether could just form a whole big business somewhere. Yeah, that is magnificent. Oh, wow. Um, so I know you keep in contact with them.

Nixon: Oh, yes. Well, like I said, my oldest will be in in a couple of days. My youngest was just here about a month ago. And, of course, my daughter doesn't get here since she's out of the country too often. But when when my children come to visit fairly often, I would say like at least twice a year, they try to make it to see whether or not, particularly since we both are widows. The first year after my husband died, he just died three years ago. Why, my children made up a schedule among themselves so that somebody came to visit my mother and I for the year of 1973. Every month somebody came and visited us just to check to see how we were doing.

Billups: Oh, that is really nice. Oh, I know you're proud of them. Nixon: Yes, I really am. Billups: Wow. So. So, have you had family reunions?

Nixon: No, not since my husband died. We had one about a couple of months before my husband took sick and died. And my youngest didn't even get here for that. We didn't exactly call it a family reunion. I was telling you about these four young men. They had a club that they belonged to that they made up among themselves called the Ebony League when they all lived here in Pittsburgh. And they were the ones that were having a reunion. And my daughter thought, well, I'll get a chance to see my two brothers. And so then she came along, you know, while they were here. So we had three of our children and these other four boys because, let's see. Two of them no longer live in Pittsburgh. One lives in Chicago and one lives in Harrisburg, and the other two one lives next door and the other one lives out in Homewood. Billups: Right? Nixon: So anyhow, my daughter came. So we had three of our children and then these four, and we consider that sort of like a, you know, a family reunion. But since then, since my husband died, we have not had any opportunity for everybody to get together. We've talked about it. But you know how those.

Billups: Yeah, we're talking about our family getting together this Christmas coming up so-- Nixon: Absolutely, that would be great. Billups: I'm I'm looking forward to it. I have never done it before. Okay. So you said you belong to the Baptist church you belong to for 54 years. Nixon: Yes. Billups: And how often do you attend? You go every, every week?

Nixon: Goodness, I'm there every Sunday

Billups: I bet more than once a week, right?

Nixon: Yes. Well, my mother is the one that goes more than once a week. She goes to prayer meeting on Tuesday night. She goes to prayer meeting on Saturday noon. And then she goes, We both go on Sunday. We're both involved in Sunday school. She has a class.

Billups: Oh, that's nice.

Nixon: I no longer have a class. I was secretary. I must have been secretary of Sunday School for 20 years, I guess. And I finally got tired of it. And I just told them I'm quitting. So now I am in a class, but I do not teach. But she teaches a class and she belongs to the nurses unit and she wears her uniform.

Billups: Oh, that's nice.

Nixon: Whatever time she's supposed to. And she also belongs to a missionary group. I also belong to a missionary group.

Billups: Oh, that's really nice. Okay.

Nixon: Plus I haven't told you about how I'm a trustee.

Billups: Right. Mhm. So is this a mixed congregation at your church or-- Nixon: No, all Black. Billups: All Black. That's what I thought.

Nixon: Our minister preached last Sunday about that.

Billups: But yeah, that's what I was going to ask you about.

Nixon: We don't want--

Billups: That's exactly I was going to ask you about. Did your clergy did he encourage integration?

Nixon: No. And we thought he made a very good argument for it last Sunday because he said that we are the only people in the United States and maybe on the face of the earth who cannot trace our lineage back more than about three generations. You go any further back than that. We don't know where we came from. We don't know who we are or anything. The Jewish people, man, they can go back to kingdom come, you know, And the Italians, they got folks over in Italy and they know where exactly where they, you know, we can't do that. And he says that the church now is the only thing that we have left where that we Black people can really identify completely. Right. And he says he don't think that we ought to encourage integration because if that comes in and it comes in on too large a scale, now I'm adding this. He didn't say this in the pulpit, but I'm saying that nine chances out of ten, the White people would take it over. Billups: Right. Nixon: And this way we feel free. Now our church, our people like to express themselves. If the minister says something that they agree with, they may holler out, Amen. Or somebody may get up and shout or scream a few times or something. And if White people came in, we probably would be very sensitive about that. Billups: I know. I know. Nixon: It would just really lose the spirit. So he says that he doesn't think that we should give up our Black church because that's the only place that we have now that we can identify with. And it's the only thing through which we as Black people can really have a nucleus from which we can work for Black people.

Billups: So is there a relationship between your church and the NAACP?

Nixon: Yes. Yes, we have the campaign every year. I don't think we do anything specifically other than have this campaign and get as many members as we can. But we encourage membership. Our minister gets up and announces it from the pulpit and the two people that are taking the memberships, why they circulate around among the the members, you know. And I, I don't remember them doing too much last year, but year before last, they aimed at 100 members and I think they made it.

Billups: Oh, wow, that's good. So have there been any changes in the organization, NAACP? During the 1950s, were you--did you belong to it then? You belong to it?

Nixon: I belonged, but I didn't. 50s, 50s. No, I didn't belong in the 50s. I didn't really join it until this is 76. I must I didn't join into it until about late in the 60s.

Billups: Oh, yeah.

Nixon: I know. Tim Stevens, who was the, some kind of secretary.

Billups: But you did say that NAACP you thought started making progress during the 1950s. Right? You said 20 years ago you thought they started making progress. Nixon: Yes. Yes. Billups: Okay. All right. And did the World War affect your identity as a Black person in any way? Did it affect you at all?

Nixon: I wouldn't think so. Actually, maybe I should be ashamed to say this, but I never thought about being Black too much until the younger generation came along, you know? And of course, when Martin Luther King started his march, then I think that started all us Black people to thinking that we're not really being treated quite like we should. But I sort of maybe didn't have quite the problem that some other people did. Now, the school that my children went to--Vann school, right up here in this neighborhood, there were children who went there who were not getting the proper kind of education at all. And I always belonged to the PTA. I pushed that and was a member and, you know, involved in that and any way whatsoever. And I can remember parents complaining because they felt that the the school got the poorest teachers. You know, if a teacher failed the test or something or other and she was not good enough to go to school to either Squirrel Hill or to Mount Lebanon or something, they sent her to the Hill District. But when I wanted to say something, the board wasn't too anxious to listen to me because my children were always the top of the class, you know? And in Schenley High School, they were the president and all that kind of stuff. I couldn't really say too much. And so for that reason, I don't know. I couldn't say that they were being denied a whole lot. Billups: Right. Nixon: I don't know what my mother did to me. But when I came up, I came up believing that I was just as good as the next fellow, even though I was not raised with Whites. And when I got to Schenley, I was always in among the top five or the fifth, top fifth, 5% of the class or something. Billups: All right. Nixon: And when my children came along, I pushed them, oh they said I really gave them a fit, you know, And they were just really always in the top of their class. And I guess that's how they got where they are now. Billups: Oh that's good. Nixon: So we didn't have problems--

Billups: I'm gonna stop this tape because it's getting ready run off. I want to get you.